Ceremony

[disastermouse]

I wish I could say that ceremony and ritual touched me in any meaningful way, but they simply don't. I perform them when required by a teacher I respect, but there is no interior motivation for doing them.

However, I'm no longer flat-out antagonistic toward them.

Chet

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi Nindo,
No worries. I just wanted to clarify things from my perspective and experience. Everyone has their own experience.
Gassho,
Myozan

[JustBen]

I learned a lot about ceremony and ritual by reading Confucius. I used to think of it as somewhat silly, but I can see how (if done right) it can form character.

[Shonin]

Coming from more of a new age'ish perspective originally(well bad way to say it but gets the point across), ceremony is a huge deal. It's not about the exact words or movements. It's about the feeling behind them. And as mention above..it is meditation..entering the sacred. Psychologically it can also assist our endeavors as when we perform these ceremonies, the ceremnies themselves but us in the right state of mind for them.
Such as how some use one type incense during meditation ( of whatever flavor one preferrs). That particular scent alerts the brain it's meditation time. You have that psychological association.
It's not about how we feel about a particular ritual. Whether neccessary or not. It's about how we understand the deeper impact of these ceremonies when incorporated into our lives regularly, the patterns within us that they establish, as well as truly understanding what the ritual is about. Why do we do it, etc.

Gods , I hope that makes sense to at least one other person.

_/\_ Dave

[Amelia]

It does. I used to be Wiccan.

[Shonin]

_/\_

[Hans]

Hello,

to me it seems that for some people rituals and ceremony just make sense in a very deep way that has nothing to do with superstition per se, but more along the lines of poetry. A lot of very intelligent and empathic people don't "get" poetry at all and for them it will always be a bit of a waste of time. For others it's a bit of emotional masturbation and for yet another group of people poems and/or rituals are dynamically enacted gateways to the mysterious and infinite awe that is suchness itself.

Just my two Yen.

Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Shokai]

Right on, Mongen!

And, Amelia wrote:

It does. I used to be Wiccan.

Is there a saying, "once a Wicca n, always a Wicca n ??

I was once a Christian (hence the name Richard). I studied Bahai(sm); begged off that when they insisted my DNA chose my destiny (* you can google my cousin Ruhiyyih Khanum (Mary Maxwell)*). I cried when I read the Koran. I was totally impressed by early Hinduism. It's all good and, by definition, I am still all of those but, my personal opinion is that Zen is where it's at. And, i believe Albert was in agreement when he said:

A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
- Einstein

, Shokai (that's my Dharma name btw )

* you should have seen the prostrations when i presented my credit card at the Bahai Temple in Chicago; enough to make a Wiccan Ceremony look pale in comparison.

[Jakudo]

I think ceremony is good when used constructively and i enjoy adhering to the forms . But on the other hand there is a link between ceremony/ritual and addictions that i read about... have to look for the article.

[Jakudo]

here is something on this http://addictions.about.com/od/sexad.../defritual.htm

[Jundo]

here is something on this http://addictions.about.com/od/sexad.../defritual.htm

Well. I assume that the word "ritual" is being used in a very wide sense here. I rather doubt that a wedding, a bar mitzvah, awarding medals during the Olympics, chanting the Heart Sutra, swearing in the Prime Minister and scoring heroine in the back alley are that closely connected!

Unless, of course, you mean to say that the Heart Sutra is a gateway drug????

Gassho, J

[Myozan Kodo]

the Heart Sutra is a gateway drug????

I started on the Heart Sutra and within a year I was into the Diamond Sutra. Then it wasn't strong enough so I moved on to the Lotus Sutra. By that stage, I was sitting for long periods motionless every day and all my hair had fallen out.

[disastermouse]

I love poetry. I hate ceremony....I just really, really dislike it.

[Mp]

... and all my hair had fallen out.

Yours too? It must be a sign.

Gassho
Michael

[Jundo]

I hate ceremony....I just really, really dislike it.

Part of me does too. That is one reason to pour myself into some ceremonies ... because I don't care for them. Also, they are an acquired taste that one can come to appreciate. They are a dance. Around here, we tend to keep ceremony fairly bare bones ... but still appreciate the moment.

It is a good time to point folks to this thread ...

Recommended 'at home' liturgy

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8069-Recommended-at-home-liturgy

and this marvelous book ...

Bringing the Sacred to Life: The Daily Practice of Zen Ritual by John Daido Loori Roshi

http://www.amazon.com/Bringing-Sacred-Life-Practice-Communications/dp/1590305337

Gassho, J