What sections of the Shobogenzo were ment to be read rather than heard?

[Hoseki]

Hi folks,

As I understand it, Dogen gave Uji to his students to read rather than a sermen. Does anyone know if there are other sections that were also intended to be read by students rather than heard?

Thanks!

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

[Shujin]

Hmmm. My understanding, although it may be wrong, is that Shobogenzo is a written record (whether read aloud to monks or not). Some of Eihei Koroku contains short talks that Dogen gave, and were transcribed by his monks.

We recite Fukanzazengi during Rohatsu, but I don't know if this was its original intention. I think Fukanzazengi was a letter to a lay patron.

Someone please correct me on this if this isn't the case. In any event, I'm a priest in training. My words carry no authority.

Gassho,
Shujin

St/lah

[Jundo]

Hi folks,

As I understand it, Dogen gave Uji to his students to read rather than a sermen. Does anyone know if there are other sections that were also intended to be read by students rather than heard?

Thanks!

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah

Hmmm. Interesting question.

I would say that almost all were spoken at one time or another, but also written (and usually rewritten and rewritten, thus resulting in quite a pile of various somewhat varying versions found here and there.) Dr. Heine says ...

The Treasury [Shobogenzo] is a multifaceted and open-ended compilation comprising primarily a series of informal, often impromptu sermons (jishu) delivered and recorded in Japanese vernacular (kana), based largely on citations of Chinese texts featuring Dōgen’s unique translations and elucidations. The informal sermon is a free- form style of Zen orating that could take place at any time of the day and in any temple location other than the Dharma hall, or wherever the abbot decided to convene his assembly. This genre stands in contrast to another category known as formal sermons (jōdō), which, according to Song-dynasty Chan monastic guidelines, are presented exclusively in the Dharma hall on a prescribed schedule that follows a weekly routine. Dōgen delivered formal sermons in Sinitic syntax (kanbun) over the course of fifteen years, beginning in 1236, that are included in the first seven sections of his ten-volume Extensive Record [Eihei Koroku]. In some instances, the written version of a Treasury fascicle preceded the delivery of the lecture. But in most cases Ejō, as chief transcriber, made a record sometime after the oral presentation. Additional editing transpired either sometime before Dōgen’s death or during the quarter century until Ejō died in 1280. ...

... Therefore, the Treasury is considered a provisional, rather than a fixed and final, body of work. As William Bodiford notes, its composition is more tentative than comparable works by leading Buddhist authors or Japanese religious thinkers whose approaches to textual organization were more preplanned and systematic ... [Bodhiford:] "Dōgen composed the books not as independent works, but as related parts of a larger whole that consists of a beginning, middle, and end. Dōgen repeatedly revised the individual books, and he rearranged their order at least two or three times. Subsequent generations compiled new versions of Dōgen’s text, adding or rejecting individual books and rearranging them thematically or chronologically." https://cup.columbia.edu/book/readings-of-dogens-treasury-of-the-true-dharma-eye/9780231182294

Add to that the fact that Dogen loved the poetry and word play (often playing double-entendre with Kanji that can have homonyms and the like) ...

I often recommend the best way is to read two or three versions side by side, to "triangulate" where Dogen was coming from (e.g., Tanahashi is best in getting the wordplay and poetry, but loses some literalness. Nishijima-Cross and SZTP are very literal and accurate, but might lose some of the play.) On top, I might add Kokuu's recordings, to let the orality and sound wash through one.

Gassho, J
stlah

PS - Genjo Koan was a letter to a lay follower, and Fukanzazengi was written separately from Shobogenzo as a kind of short "How to Sit" manual. Both are very beautiful and poetic, though, and the Fukanzazengi read in Japanese is truly entrancing to hear and, even more, to chant in Japanese (which I have done many many times, as one of my regular Zen groups in Tokyo used to chant it at the end of each Zazenkai).
.

[Hoseki]

Hmmm. Interesting question.

I would say that almost all were spoken at one time or another, but also written (and usually rewritten and rewritten, thus resulting in quite a pile of various somewhat varying versions found here and there.) Dr. Heine says ...



Add to that the fact that Dogen loved the poetry and word play (often playing double-entendre with Kanji that can have homonyms and the like) ...

I often recommend the best way is to read two or three versions side by side, to "triangulate" where Dogen was coming from (e.g., Tanahashi is best in getting the wordplay and poetry, but loses some literalness. Nishijima-Cross and SZTP are very literal and accurate, but might lose some of the play.) On top, I might add Kokuu's recordings, to let the orality and sound wash through one.

Gassho, J
stlah

PS - Genjo Koan was a letter to a lay follower, and Fukanzazengi was written separately from Shobogenzo as a kind of short "How to Sit" manual. Both are very beautiful and poetic, though, and the Fukanzazengi read in Japanese is truly entrancing to hear and, even more, to chant in Japanese (which I have done many many times, as one of my regular Zen groups in Tokyo used to chant it at the end of each Zazenkai).
.

Thank you Shujin and Jundo! I watched the video. I'm not sure how to articulate this but I feel like the chanting is sort of like a symbol for the buddhadharma. So many different voices and yet also a single voice. If that makes sense.

Gassho,

Hoseki
sattoday/lah