Tensing during Zazen

[Choujou]

Good Evening everyone,
I’ve noticed recently in my Zazen that I seem to be tensing different parts of my body at times when not meaning to. Sometimes it’s my shoulders, at times my legs, and sometimes even my forehead! I just wanted to ask if anyone has encountered this and for any insights on how to work through it. As all things are impermanent, should I expect this just to pass in time as well?

Thank you!

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

[Bion]

Hi, Jay!
Oh yes, it happens sometimes to me as well and I actually notice it as a regular thing in my day to day life. In Zazen it is now less of an issue, but it is definitely not uncommon.

Tension is normal, cause we keep the posture a certain way, cross our legs and use our muscles, but tenseness is a different thing. In my experience, and please take this whole answer as that, just my own approach, as a novice monk, the way to solving it is through mindful preparation and awareness. What I mean by that is: approach the cushion with the attitude of "every part is important, including before, during and after zazen". Before we sit we adjust our posture, whatever that may be... Traditionally, once we are sat and legs are crossed, we start swaying clockwise, starting with fairly ample movements, and slowly closing in on a stable posture. That helps relax the muscles and find our center of gravity. Mentally we also tell ourselves it is time to relax the body for sitting. The next step is to take a couple of deep breaths, inhaling through our nose and exhaling slowly and controlled through the moth, before we settle into a normal breathing through the nose for the rest of zazen. This also helps relax and prepare the body. After that, it is important to be aware of what we do with this body-mind, and it takes a little practice to correct posture mistakes we might bring over from our daily life: sitting slouched, tilting the head upwards etc Once we find the comfortable posture, we simply come back to it when necessary, especially if during zazen the posture itself starts screaming " Ouch!" Posture-wise there are tiny tips, but it depends on how you regularly sit, whether it's in burmese, half lotus, seiza... I always remember master Dogen's words: "eyes horizontal, nose vertical... " That might seem silly, but they can only be in that position in relation to something else., so we need to mindfully relax the body and be aware of it so that it naturally aligns like that with our environment: head straight with chin just a bit pushed inwards means eyes are horizontal and perpendicular to the ground... This helps with tension in the neck or back... Bottom line here is that it requires mindful awareness to be able to correct posture mistakes that make us feel discomfort and sometimes it also requires a second pair of eyes. If you think it would be helpful, I would be more than happy to get together with you and see if I can spot anything in your posture that might be contribuyting to your tenseness. Just as an example, after 7 years of daily sitting, I realized, thanks to someone else, that I was leaning forward during zazen and that was making me go very numb... I was able to correct that and it definitely helped!

I hope this will help even just a bit. Again, these are just my own thoughts, based on my experience! Take them with a grain of salt

Gassho
sat and lah

[RobO]

In addition to Bion's excellent comments I would cautiously suggest outside of Zazen you could try progressive muscle relaxation occasionally (I learned that years ago and it taught me to relax specific areas), and / or doing a very quick run through body scan relaxing key areas once on the cushion prior to the bell. A warmup, if you will. I do this anyway as it seems to shave time from the "settling down" phase for me.

Gassho
Rob
Sat/lah

[Choujou]

Hi, Jay!
Oh yes, it happens sometimes to me as well and I actually notice it as a regular thing in my day to day life. In Zazen it is now less of an issue, but it is definitely not uncommon. Tension is normal, cause we keep the posture a certain way, cross our legs and use our muscles, but tenseness is a different thing. In my experience, and please take this whole answer as that, just my own approach, as a novice monk, the way to solving it is through mindful preparation and awareness. What I mean by that is: approach the cushion with the attitude of "every part is important, including before, during and after zazen". Before we sit we adjust our posture, whatever that may be... Traditionally, once we are sat and legs are crossed, we start swaying clockwise, starting with fairly ample movements, and slowly closing in on a stable posture. That helps relax the muscles and find our center of gravity. Mentally we also tell ourselves it is time to relax the body for sitting. The next step is to take a couple of deep breaths, inhaling through our nose and exhaling slowly and controlled through the moth, before we settle into a normal breathing through the nose for the rest of zazen. This also helps relax and prepare the body. After that, it is important to be aware of what we do with this body-mind, and it takes a little practice to correct posture mistakes we might bring over from our daily life: sitting slouched, tilting the head upwards etc Once we find the comfortable posture, we simply come back to it when necessary, especially if during zazen the posture itself starts screaming " Ouch!" Posture-wise there are tiny tips, but it depends on how you regularly sit, whether it's in burmese, half lotus, seiza... I always remember master Dogen's words: "eyes horizontal, nose vertical... " That might seem silly, but they can only be in that position in relation to something else., so we need to mindfully relax the body and be aware of it so that it naturally aligns like that with our environment: head straight with chin just a bit pushed inwards means eyes are horizontal and perpendicular to the ground... This helps with tension in the neck or back... Bottom line here is that it requires mindful awareness to be able to correct posture mistakes that make us feel discomfort and sometimes it also requires a second pair of eyes. If you think it would be helpful, I would be more than happy to get together with you and see if I can spot anything in your posture that might be contribuyting to your tenseness. Just as an example, after 7 years of daily sitting, I realized, thanks to someone else, that I was leaning forward during zazen and that was making me go very numb... I was able to correct that and it definitely helped!

I hope this will help even just a bit. Again, these are just my own thoughts, based on my experience! Take them with a grain of salt

Gassho
sat and lah

Good Afternoon Bion,

Thank you so much for all the advice! During Zazen this morning I was trying to be a little more mindful about my posture and what might be causing the extra tension, and you were absolutely right. I think part of my issue is some of the pain I experience while sitting. I have western “thunder thighs” , to quote Jundo from his training videos (that one made me laugh ), so I tend to sit in the Seiza position. I find it to be the most comfortable of all the postures, at least until I lose some more weight! But with said weight, I tend to get a little bit of low back strain as well as some sciatic pain at times. I may be tensing other parts to compensate, or maybe my body’s way of dealing with the pain?
Thank you for offering to work with me on my posture! That would be absolutely fantastic! (I am free most Wednesdays and Thursdays, though this Thursday I am not available.)
Thanks again, and I look forward to working with you!

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

[Choujou]

In addition to Bion's excellent comments I would cautiously suggest outside of Zazen you could try progressive muscle relaxation occasionally (I learned that years ago and it taught me to relax specific areas), and / or doing a very quick run through body scan relaxing key areas once on the cushion prior to the bell. A warmup, if you will. I do this anyway as it seems to shave time from the "settling down" phase for me.

Gassho
Rob
Sat/lah

Rob,
Great advice, thank you! I will have to look into some of those techniques and see what will work best for me. I could also probably use a little stretching before Zazen, which I neglect to do.
If you don’t mind me asking, how do you relax specific areas?

Thank you!
Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

[Bion]

Good Afternoon Bion,

Thank you so much for all the advice! During Zazen this morning I was trying to be a little more mindful about my posture and what might be causing the extra tension, and you were absolutely right. I think part of my issue is some of the pain I experience while sitting. I have western “thunder thighs” , to quote Jundo from his training videos (that one made me laugh ), so I tend to sit in the Seiza position. I find it to be the most comfortable of all the postures, at least until I lose some more weight! But with said weight, I tend to get a little bit of low back strain as well as some sciatic pain at times. I may be tensing other parts to compensate, or maybe my body’s way of dealing with the pain?
Thank you for offering to work with me on my posture! That would be absolutely fantastic! (I am free most Wednesdays and Thursdays, though this Thursday I am not available.)
Thanks again, and I look forward to working with you!

Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

Ha! There is alwas a big why to things, isn't there?
Please just send me a message whenever you think you want to meet up, and I will do my best to make it happen! I'll leave it to you!

Gassho
sat and lah

[Jundo]

My suggestion may be a little simple.

Pay no notice to the stress. Just do not be bothered by it or pay it heed. If it becomes so bad that one must notice, just relax the muscles in that spot briefly, feeling the tension drift away, then go back to just sitting. But generally, just don't care about it.

If it is something like a charley-horse (muscle cramp) too painful to bear, Gassho quickly, get up, walk it off, keep Shikantaza equanimity toward to whole experience. (I have even stood or walked the rest of Kinhin when really cramping up.)

Just sit (or if absolutely needed, stand or walk it off) as what is.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Choujou]

My suggestion may be a little simple.

Pay no notice to the stress. Just do not be bothered by it or pay it heed. If it becomes so bad that one must notice, just relax the muscles in that spot briefly, feeling the tension drift away, then go back to just sitting. But generally, just don't care about it.

If it is something like a charley-horse (muscle cramp) too painful to bear, Gassho quickly, get up, walk it off, keep Shikantaza equanimity toward to whole experience. (I have even stood or walked the rest of Kinhin when really cramping up.)

Just sit (or if absolutely needed, stand or walk it off) as what is.

Gassho, J

stlah

Good morning Roshi,

Simple is always good in my book! Thank you for reminding me that the tension is neither good nor bad. I will accept what comes and just sit!

Thank you!

Gassho,
Jay
Sat/lah today

[Hosai]

I find I sometimes need an actual physical warm up/stretching/gentle body practise before. Also sometimes I replace kinhin with stretching/body work if doing multiple periods.



Matt

sat / lah

[RobO]

Rob,
Great advice, thank you! I will have to look into some of those techniques and see what will work best for me. I could also probably use a little stretching before Zazen, which I neglect to do.
If you don’t mind me asking, how do you relax specific areas?

Thank you!
Gassho,
Jay

Sat/Lah today

No worries Jay.

The way I remember progressive muscle relaxation working is, it's sortof like the contrast helps to highlight and learn the relaxation, so you tense the muscles and relax, and watching the relaxing from tensed to normal helps you apply it to normal to (even more) relaxed without tensing.

But this suggestion is entirely separate from Zazen.

Gassho,
Rob
Sat/lah

[Choujou]

I find I sometimes need an actual physical warm up/stretching/gentle body practise before. Also sometimes I replace kinhin with stretching/body work if doing multiple periods.



Matt

sat / lah

Hi Matt,
Thank you for the suggestions! Truth be told, I tend to throw on my meditation clothes and head for the zafu right away. I need make some more time for stretching and warm up before hand. Time to change the routine!

Gassho,
Jay
Sat/Lah today

[Jundo]

Jay, also remember (and this is very important), tensing is not necessarily a physical happening at all, and may be more mental. In other words, when feeling tense, stressed, or disturbed in many ways, it is not something necessarily to cure with stretching or physical actions. Just tell yourself (or feel subtly and silently within) that "I am relaxed now," and mentally let the stress, resistance and disturbance go.

Many "problems" are only problems when we subjectively judge them as problems. Just "don't be stiff and stressed" in heart, and you will not be feeling stiff and stressed in body.

I am very cautious about anything that sees Zazen, or the Lotus Posture, as something to be prepared for or to be "done the right way."

By the way, sitting Zazen in Taiwan this week (and having similar experiences in China in the past), the Chinese are way WAY less concerned about maintaining a certain and right posture than the Japanese (who I sometimes call "Lotus Posture Fanatics".) Just sit, knowing your own body, not any one size fits all instruction. If a way of sitting feel balanced, stable and reasonably comfortable to you, then it is a good way of sitting for your body. Often, however, feeling "balanced, stable and comfortable" is more a matter of the equanimity and allowing in one's heart than anything to do with the external body.

Gassho, Jundo (at Narita Airport waiting for the bus)

stlah

[Jundo]

PS - By the way, when I have sat in China, Thailand, Laos and Tibet, I have found the meditators generally much less rigid on posture compared to the Japanese. A cultural difference. Here, for example, are some shots taken at a Sesshin I attended at a the "6th Ancestor Monastery" in China a few years back, and you can see how there is more a hodge-podge of sitting styles ... Have a look here from the 4:30 mark (in Japan, many of those guys would be hit with the stick for hunching over so) ...
.

[Hosai]

Tibetans also very lax on posture. But many Buddhist traditions evolved on their own to include body work as an inherent aspect of a complete practise. Whether it was viewed as preparation for meditation is a different question.

But as someone who struggled way longer with full lotus than he should have.... Absolutely! Caution and listening to yourself and your body is the most important.

_/\_

sat / lah

Matt

[Dainin]

Just sit, knowing your own body, not any one size fits all instruction. If a way of sitting feel balanced, stable and reasonably comfortable to you, then it is a good way of sitting for your body. Often, however, feeling "balanced, stable and comfortable" is more a matter of the equanimity and allowing in one's heart than anything to do with the external body.

This is among the best advice I've heard, Jundo. It has helped me be okay with going from Burmese on a zafu to a seiza bench to a chair for the past year. I had to listen to my body, and sometimes it said, "Owwww!"

When I started practicing, it was about wanting to do it "right" and reach some silly ideal. Now it's just as Jundo has said here.

Gassho,
Dainin

SatLah