Unwittingly helping a fake

[Seiko]

Please excuse the length of this post, and remember that I am not a teacher, just a novice priest, so please take my words with a pinch of salt.

A few people here host or organise meditation and/or mindfulness sessions in their home towns.

Earlier this year a friend of a friend asked to join the meditation sessions I facilitate locally. When we met, her story seemed a little "off". I am a caring person but her emotional breakdown also seemed a bit weird/faked. Despite this we sat. She asked me to recommend a physical temple to visit in UK.

After this, I invited her to return to sit with us a few more times but she always declined. She said she had cancelled her weekend stay at the temple I recommended.

It turns out that she visited a dozen practitioners of meditation and other spiritual practice in order to conduct a cursory level of research to base her new business on. She is now set up as a meditation teacher, drawing on a mismatched collection of ideas and imaginings. She is charging big money if anyone seeks her teachings.

Why do folk gravitate towards such people? They may be colourful but it ain't Dharma. And I feel like I somehow helped this person to set up. In reality, she tricked me, came to sit with me as a fraud.

We can't stop this happening, but in my own location, I feel that knowing who is out there, and whether they are serious or whacko, may help if any of their community turn up at the meditation sessions I organise.

I do feel some sadness when I see these folk who invent their own religions, but all I can do is carry on doing zazen and following precepts.

Gasshō
Seiko
stlah

[Dainin]

I appreciate you sharing this, Seiko. What you did was out of compassion; you had no intention of assisting her in her scheme. It is regrettable that she would be so duplicitous. Maybe she will attract people because she may offer something new and shiny. People will always run after toys. There are well-documented cases in the Zen world of acknowledged "masters" doing the same. Perhaps the best we can do is be faithful to the Precepts and our vows while being vigilant for charlatans. Keep doing good work, Seiko.

Gassho,
Dainin

SatLah

[Bion]

It is not uncommon for folks to become motivational speakers, meditation gurus, spiritual advisors etc .. Especially nowadays, when anything can be monetized and all that one needs as “credentials” is followers online. Meditation comes in many forms, as we all know and so it is not necessarily tied to the Buddha Dharma. Insight Timer hosts many many “teachers” and anyone can become that by simply offering content. If folks find the content interesting enough, they will congregate around someone. If they sell meditation, well, it’s one thing… Were they to sell Soto Zen and present themselves as teachers, that would be a different thing. In this day and age, it is the very apps and websites we use that invite us all create and monetize content…. I guess it comes with the technology itself. I can just shrug

gassho
sat and lah

[Kaitan]

I recently discovered a former classmate from Mexico, that I would still consider a good friend (we haven't spoken in years), started to give Dharma talks in conjunction with yoga, mindfulness and Pranayama. He seems to have struggled to find jobs and making a business for the past years, and I understand is rough, but I didn't know what to think about this, especially because he is offering the teachings of the Buddha and one needs to pay for it.

I know he has been interested in Buddha's teachings and world religions for a very long time, ever since I know him (more than 10 years already), but I can't really tell if he has practiced with a Sangha and is qualified to teach, probably not, who am I to judge this?
I guess I should follow what Seiko is suggesting: carry on doing zazen and trying to follow the precepts.

Gasshō

stlah, Kaitan

[Alina]

Why do folk gravitate towards such people? They may be colourful but it ain't Dharma.

I'd say it's because many want the "colorful", and they don't know much about the Dharma, and maybe some don't even want the Dharma because it involves letting go of wrongdoing and facing ourselves as we are, and remaining deluded is "easier" (this is just my opinion).

I completed 2 yoga teacher training programs, and then taught yoga for about a year. My teachers had warned us about people seeking advice that we would not be able to give, because we were yoga teachers, not doctors, not therapists, not psychiatrists. Still I was shocked at how many tried to seek advice of all sorts from me, and how open they were to anything I could have said, it made me a bit scared to see how emotionally vulnerable people seem to be willing to follow anyone who seems "peaceful". I always stayed strictly within what I knew, and declined to give such advice telling them directly that I was not trained to help them in what they were needing. Those experiences made me very wary of teaching yoga ever again. Reading your post reminded me of this because if I had been less scrupulous, I could have taken advantage of them. There's a lot of suffering, a lot of emotional needs that are never met, a lot of people in need of clinging to something, and so, since there's demand, there will be those who offer.

Don't feel bad Seiko, you were honest. As you said, zazen and following the precepts is all we can do. I hope you don't have to deal with this person or any other whacko in the future.


Gassho
Alina
stlah

[Jacob Janicek]

I was...raised by two parents who were EXACTLY the kind of folk who "gravitate towards such people". I was initiated into something called Kriya Yoga when I was 11, this was after we had begun visiting their ashram because the leader of their previous new age group turned out to be a sexual predator. I had a strange upbringing.

Gassho,
-Jacob J.
Sat and LAH

[Houzan]

I am with the rest. We make decisions based on the information we have. It’s impossible to make decisions on information we don’t have

A couple of other perspectives:
1) Your guidance to her might end up helping many. Who knows? Doesn’t need to be branded “zen” to achieve this.
2) Charging for these services is natural. Also in zen. Only the payment model is different. Not black and white this.
3) The market will decide her business faith when it comes to steep prices. Not an easy market. And cost of living must be covered. Very small chance she will get rich doing this.
4) Many stories about people who take advantage in situations like this, but probably more people who have good intentions and don’t take advantage.

My point is: it’s more likely you did something good than not

Gassho, Hōzan
Satlah

[Kokuu]

Hi Seiko

Like you, I have found it worrying how many people set up as meditation teachers with very little experience. However, I have also realised that trying to control the world in terms of the number of people who offer teachings in person, on You Tube, in blogs and elsewhere is impossible and that snake oil salesmen and women have always existed and likely always will do.

I can see how you personally felt a part of this but I can imagine that this person would have done what they are doing regardless of whether they made contact with you or not. All we can do is work with our own practice and how we present ourselves and the teachings so there are genuine refuges for seekers to find. People will always be drawn to those whose teachings appear more shiny, more attractive or are just better marketed, but some are also looking for reliable dharma that is presented in a genuine way and we hope that they will find a way to our door.

Ah, the joys of samsara!

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Jishin]

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[Onki]

Thank you for sharing this, Seiko,

It is not your fault. You are a kind, friendly person. You offered her assistance in order to help her with nothing but kindness in your heart.

It is troubling to hear that there are people out there that are fueled by greed and will do anything to obtain finances even at the expense of others.

I had a teacher that was a “Roshi” who treated the Sangha like a business. He would charge for sesshins and retreats. Granted, yes, it was a brick and mortar building that he owned, so I would expect him to charge something to help pay for the space, food, etc. But, I felt that he was overcharging by quite a bit.

When the Sangha would begin reading a book, he would ask us to buy the book directly from him. He created a group of members (I was in this group) to be a part of one of his “classes.” It was a bit of Dharma study, but the main focus was on self development. This course was more for employees that worked for a business than Dharma studies/teachings. In fact, it got to the point where we stopped discussing the Dharma entirely and the main focus was on development of the self. It was very odd.

I remember we had a Slack group for us in this group to communicate with him. We were working on this self development course. I was in the middle of a major depressive episode. I had told him about this and unlike Treeleaf, he didn’t once check on me or see how I was doing. Instead, he decided, without talking to me about anything, that I was unsuitable for the course and blocked me on all accounts including the Slack group. I was heartbroken; thinking that I had done something wrong and I was fundamentally broken. I went further into my depression and cut the world off for a time.

Looking back, I can now see how he was a manipulative person under the guise of being a zen roshi. Had I not been kicked out of this group I wouldn’t have stumbled upon Treeleaf. So, it turned out to be a very good thing.

Gasshō,

On

sat today/LAH