Dependent Origination: Applied

[RichardH]

Wouldn't you agree that after having experienced the cessation of Dukkha, even when Dukkha returns, it is seen in a different light though? There is a certain confidence, a knowledge that this uneasy world of Samsara isn't all there is, that behind the dark clouds, the blue sky is always shining brightly, no matter how dark it seems. Practice to me is not about always living peacefully under the clear blue sky, but about staying mindful of the sky even when it can't be seen. You can't force this mindfulness, this awareness. It has to be practiced.

When someone is suffering from pain, explaining how pain works, making them understand the cause of the pain, making them see that the pain is not
dangerous in itself, will often alleviate the pain. And make it easier to live with, even after it returns.

The first experience of cessation of Dukkha changed everything. The worst Dukkha of all, the sense of spiritual exile, was over and could never be revived. There is an existential terror of being a little warm particle lost in a cold universe. That was ended, along with all doubt. The "ultimate questions" were settled. ..and all because I just stopped reaching. But, I am still a father and son and husband and neighbor, and still, as Ajahn Sumedho used to say " a sensitive being" and with that there is Dukkha.


Gassho, kojip.


Ed.

Samsara isn't all there is, that behind the dark clouds, the blue sky is always shining brightly, no matter how dark it seems.

I understood Jundo's reference to the two sides of the coin(nirvana/samsara) , and realizing the coin itself as those clouds losing their opacity, becoming more and more transparent. . That, as far as definitions go, is "Enlightenment" as I have come to understand it. But that's just another understanding I guess. Gassho.

[Jinyo]

In my view, that was a lovely description by Nonin!

Wouldn't you agree that after having experienced the cessation of Dukkha, even when Dukkha returns, it is seen in a different light though? There is a certain confidence, a knowledge that this uneasy world of Samsara isn't all there is, that behind the dark clouds, the blue sky is always shining brightly, no matter how dark it seems. Practice to me is not about always living peacefully under the clear blue sky, but about staying mindful of the sky even when it can't be seen. You can't force this mindfulness, this awareness. It has to be practiced.

When someone is suffering from pain, explaining how pain works, making them understand the cause of the pain, making them see that the pain is not dangerous in itself, will often alleviate the pain. And make it easier to live with, even after it returns.

Gassho,
Pontus

Hi Pontus - I think I can only come to an understanding of this subjectively.

So many situations in this world of samsara where I couldn't even begin to explain to another how pain works, the cause of it (often not any direct causal link between cause and effect for the person suffering) and I do not believe (on every occassion) that 'the pain' in itself is not dangerous (it may well be dangerous on many levels).

Just an initial response ......

Gassho

Willow

[Omoi Otoshi]

Hello Willow,
In the last paragraph I was talking about "physical" pain (which is not so physical) and not existential angst. Sorry that I wasn't very clear!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Jinyo]

Hello Willow,
In the last paragraph I was talking about "physical" pain (which is not so physical) and not existential angst. Sorry that I wasn't very clear!

Gassho,
Pontus

Hi Pontus - thank you - understood now


Gassho

Willow

[Omoi Otoshi]

You are still right of course! Even though we have some understanding of the physiology of pain, it is very complex and science is only scraping the surface. Pain is a perception, not just chemical reactions. When I "explain" how pain works, I use very simplified models. Still, when patients understand a little more about what happens in their bodies, the pain is often easier to bear.

Gassho,
/Pontus

[Jinyo]

You are still right of course! Even though we have some understanding of the physiology of pain, it is very complex and science is only scraping the surface. Pain is a perception, not just chemical reactions. When I "explain" how pain works, I use very simplified models. Still, when patients understand a little more about what happens in their bodies, the pain is often easier to bear.

Gassho,
/Pontus

Yes - what you say is very true.

One of the first books I read - that led in a circuitous route to here - is by Saki Santorelli who works in a stress reduction clinic in America - often with patients who have high levels of pain. The message of the book is really about just 'sitting' with and through the pain - not trying to change it or fight it.

I have complex pain issues with my health condition but much prefer this approach to taking powerful drugs with lots of side affects. This seems to puzzle the medics - but I am equally puzzled that they don't seem able to accept that I feel more relaxed and in control of the pain by accepting and going with it.

Anyway - whatever helps the individual at the end of the day.

I feel you must help your patients a lot by explaining pain in the way you do - even severe pain doesn't mean there is something frighteningly wrong taking place in the body.

Gassho

Willow