opinions, what good are they?

[Stev]

Anyone here who uses linux Mint or Ubuntu here knows of the 'Terminal' where one can control one's whole computer if you have the knowledge. I have two, one is called CLI companion which is an aid for computer dummies like me to use the terminal and the actual terminal. I accidentally clicked on the CLI Companion just before writing this reply. When it comes up on the screen the 'Terminal' always has a piece of advice. Today the CLI was.
.
_________________________________
/ You are taking yourself far too \
\ seriously. /
---------------------------------
\
\ \_\_ _/_/
\ \__/
(oo)\_______
(__)\ )\/\

So just for fun I opened the actual Terminal and that advice was -

( You are fighting for survival in your )
( own sweet and gentle way. )
---------------------------------------
o
o
.--.
|o_o |
|:_/ |
// \ \
(| | )
/'\_ _/`\
\___)=(___/

I laughed out aloud when I read I was taking myself too seriously. I was about to write that it is not possible to be passionate about one's beliefs, opinions or judgments and at the same time let go of that passion. I am not speaking of opinions on fashion or the colour of a man's politics, I am speaking of passionate beliefs about what is right and what is wrong, and questioning is it worth being passionate at all about this worldly illusion that most of us have to take part in to survive.

Then I clicked on the 'Terminal' and read "You are fighting for survival in your own sweet and gentle way" (is the pic a little meditating Buddha??)
Actually a tear came to my eye! My first thought after reading that was 'passion' itself is the illusion that colours opinions, beliefs, judgments. To have opinions is neither right or wrong, good or bad, to let go of the passion that drives them, allows one to have opinions in a 'sweet and gentle way'.

It was AlanLa's Mantra -

""I am not my judgments." The balance I am trying to find with that little mantra is to not be so attached to something I feel passionately about, but that's kind of an oxymoron, which makes it very Zen, I suppose."

That really got me thinking, It does seem really Zen but if the passion is just an illusion (just the feeling created by the opinion, the thought) then it is certainly not an oxymoron.

So by having opinions in a 'sweet and gentle way', well let's drop the 'sweet' bit, by having opinions in a gentle way (without the illusion of passion) one can -

"hold opinions, trying diligently to make this life-world-self better, but hold them lightly. At the same timeless time, drop all opinions and let all just go, just be. All at once, as one." Jundo.

Ok that is my take on my question and whether I am right or wrong I do feel I have moved a little forward. Thank you.

Gassho

Steve


hmmm for some reason the terminal pics have ended up all jumbled up on this post, shame because the second one really looked like a little Buddha!!

[Graceleejenkins]

Is it a good thing or just selfish to withdraw from my opinions and just stroke my dog and listen to the birds singing?

Stev, to the ending question of your post, I would answer: it is always and everywhere a good thing to stroke your dog and listen to the birds singing!

I also think within your question I hear another question besides the question "What good are opinions?". I think I also hear the question, "Is it okay to be at peace (or happy),when others are suffering?" (Forgive me, if I misinterpret and read too much into your question.)

To which, I still think it is always and everwhere a good thing to stroke your dog and listen to the birds singing. I think for doing so, you are better able to help where you can. At least when I do so, I am kinder, gentler, and more able to wade in and try to help. Not to mention, my dog is happier! Gassho, Grace.

[Stephanie]

Sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions are nothing more than personality differences or quirks. For example, I just read an interesting article on how the divide between people who love or hate the taste of cilantro may actually be partly genetically predetermined. We might have a strong opinion on whether cilantro is delicious or disgusting but there is no "truth" in one side or the other.

But sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions reflect something more universal. Something that I would argue is good, and worth upholding. When we see the world of samsara, and people preying on others and the environment, and it hurts us, or makes us angry, I don't believe that this is a "self-contained" experience. We are the universe. We are this world. And we feel the waves of suffering and unease passing through it. And it is our wonderful human gift that we want to make things better, we want to alleviate suffering. It is good we are moved, that love can guide us. And it's up to how we cultivate ourselves as to whether we let our being touched by the world's suffering make us hate more, or love more.

It is important that just as we try to take care of other beings, we also take care of ourselves. And what more wonderful way to take care of ourselves than to enjoy a nuzzle with a dog, or the song of a bird? By taking nothing away from anyone, we can fill ourselves up. This too is the universe, the world, experiencing itself. This too is love, I think each goes hand in hand with the other. We cannot know peace if we ignore the suffering around us, but nor can we know peace if we cannot experience the perfection that is also always present.

[AlanLa]

Very helpful, Steve. Thank you very much. Here is my amended mantra:

I am not my judgments -- therefore I need to take them, and myself, less seriously.

It's a little long, but it'll do.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions are nothing more than personality differences or quirks. For example, I just read an interesting article on how the divide between people who love or hate the taste of cilantro may actually be partly genetically predetermined. We might have a strong opinion on whether cilantro is delicious or disgusting but there is no "truth" in one side or the other.

But sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions reflect something more universal. Something that I would argue is good, and worth upholding. When we see the world of samsara, and people preying on others and the environment, and it hurts us, or makes us angry, I don't believe that this is a "self-contained" experience. We are the universe. We are this world. And we feel the waves of suffering and unease passing through it. And it is our wonderful human gift that we want to make things better, we want to alleviate suffering. It is good we are moved, that love can guide us. And it's up to how we cultivate ourselves as to whether we let our being touched by the world's suffering make us hate more, or love more.

It is important that just as we try to take care of other beings, we also take care of ourselves. And what more wonderful way to take care of ourselves than to enjoy a nuzzle with a dog, or the song of a bird? By taking nothing away from anyone, we can fill ourselves up. This too is the universe, the world, experiencing itself. This too is love, I think each goes hand in hand with the other. We cannot know peace if we ignore the suffering around us, but nor can we know peace if we cannot experience the perfection that is also always present.

Beautiful post Stephanie!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Jundo]

But sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions reflect something more universal. Something that I would argue is good, and worth upholding. When we see the world of samsara, and people preying on others and the environment, and it hurts us, or makes us angry, I don't believe that this is a "self-contained" experience. We are the universe. We are this world. And we feel the waves of suffering and unease passing through it. And it is our wonderful human gift that we want to make things better, we want to alleviate suffering. It is good we are moved, that love can guide us. And it's up to how we cultivate ourselves as to whether we let our being touched by the world's suffering make us hate more, or love more.

It is important that just as we try to take care of other beings, we also take care of ourselves. And what more wonderful way to take care of ourselves than to enjoy a nuzzle with a dog, or the song of a bird? By taking nothing away from anyone, we can fill ourselves up. This too is the universe, the world, experiencing itself. This too is love, I think each goes hand in hand with the other. We cannot know peace if we ignore the suffering around us, but nor can we know peace if we cannot experience the perfection that is also always present.

Lovely. Thank you, Stephanie.

Gassho, J

[pinoybuddhist]

Deep bows to you Stephanie. Wonderfully said.



Rafael

Sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions are nothing more than personality differences or quirks. For example, I just read an interesting article on how the divide between people who love or hate the taste of cilantro may actually be partly genetically predetermined. We might have a strong opinion on whether cilantro is delicious or disgusting but there is no "truth" in one side or the other.

But sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions reflect something more universal. Something that I would argue is good, and worth upholding. When we see the world of samsara, and people preying on others and the environment, and it hurts us, or makes us angry, I don't believe that this is a "self-contained" experience. We are the universe. We are this world. And we feel the waves of suffering and unease passing through it. And it is our wonderful human gift that we want to make things better, we want to alleviate suffering. It is good we are moved, that love can guide us. And it's up to how we cultivate ourselves as to whether we let our being touched by the world's suffering make us hate more, or love more.

It is important that just as we try to take care of other beings, we also take care of ourselves. And what more wonderful way to take care of ourselves than to enjoy a nuzzle with a dog, or the song of a bird? By taking nothing away from anyone, we can fill ourselves up. This too is the universe, the world, experiencing itself. This too is love, I think each goes hand in hand with the other. We cannot know peace if we ignore the suffering around us, but nor can we know peace if we cannot experience the perfection that is also always present.

[Mp]

Sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions are nothing more than personality differences or quirks. For example, I just read an interesting article on how the divide between people who love or hate the taste of cilantro may actually be partly genetically predetermined. We might have a strong opinion on whether cilantro is delicious or disgusting but there is no "truth" in one side or the other.

But sometimes our feelings, thoughts, and reactions reflect something more universal. Something that I would argue is good, and worth upholding. When we see the world of samsara, and people preying on others and the environment, and it hurts us, or makes us angry, I don't believe that this is a "self-contained" experience. We are the universe. We are this world. And we feel the waves of suffering and unease passing through it. And it is our wonderful human gift that we want to make things better, we want to alleviate suffering. It is good we are moved, that love can guide us. And it's up to how we cultivate ourselves as to whether we let our being touched by the world's suffering make us hate more, or love more.

It is important that just as we try to take care of other beings, we also take care of ourselves. And what more wonderful way to take care of ourselves than to enjoy a nuzzle with a dog, or the song of a bird? By taking nothing away from anyone, we can fill ourselves up. This too is the universe, the world, experiencing itself. This too is love, I think each goes hand in hand with the other. We cannot know peace if we ignore the suffering around us, but nor can we know peace if we cannot experience the perfection that is also always present.

Yes, I second or third that Stephanie ... very nice.

Gassho
Michael

[disastermouse]

Do we really do that, though? Do we really take ourselves and our opinions less seriously? Or are we pushing them down into our unconscious so they can bubble up and create havoc? I wonder if, as one grows older in the Dharma, a person simply HAS fewer preferences?

I honestly don't know.

Chet

[Saijun]

Do we really do that, though? Do we really take ourselves and our opinions less seriously? Or are we pushing them down into our unconscious so they can bubble up and create havoc? I wonder if, as one grows older in the Dharma, a person simply HAS fewer preferences?

I honestly don't know.

Chet

Hello Chet,

For what it's worth, I think that it's somewhere between your first and last sentence, at least with me. I still have opinions and preferences and whatnot, but ultimately I care much less about them. I'm sure that one could just suppress feelings and opinions and whatnot, but that sounds like a lot of work and I'm terribly lazy.

Metta and Gassho,

Saijun

[alan.r]

Do we really do that, though? Do we really take ourselves and our opinions less seriously? Or are we pushing them down into our unconscious so they can bubble up and create havoc? I wonder if, as one grows older in the Dharma, a person simply HAS fewer preferences?

I honestly don't know.

Chet

Don't know about anyone else, but it's certainly true for me (in a relative way, I suppose; I still have opinions and stuff). God, I remember (many years ago, thankfully) getting in physical fights with people over "ideas" and "stances": one time, I remember, because we had different ideas of what constituted "nature," and I was gonna be right dammit.

Now, not so much. Maybe it has something to do with teaching college kids and the fact that I'm constantly playing with opinions and stances that aren't my own - not sure. And I don't think it's repression or pushing these things down - or, most of the time it isn't. I mean, I can so easily look back on my strongly held opinions in my college years and see what an absolute moron I was. Frankly, if someone is a curious thinker, reader, etc, it has nothing to do with growing older in the Dharma, either - it just means growing up some and not seeing one's opinion as truth, and always trying to find the other side. As for fewer preferences, maybe, who knows, I'm still a baby in Dharma years, if that's how we're counting.

Gassho,
alan

[Omoi Otoshi]

I'm guessing there are still opinions/preferences, but they are dealt with in a different way, or not at all. This is what I meant with "freedom from opinions in the midst of opinions". No internal discussion, no judging this and that, no worrying over choosing this or the other, no checking back to make sure your opinions are politically correct or that you won't look stupid. Trusting your opinions, so that you can stop worrying about them. And when you see opinions as opinions, views as views, they lose their power over you. Just opinions and views, not who you are.

Without opinions we wouldn't function very well. Imagine walking through the super market just picking things up randomly, without any regards to cost, whether you actually need it etc. Freedom from opinions in the midst of opinions means we don't have to work ourselves up over every little difference in price, quality or expiry date. When without thinking we blow every little choice out of proportion, I believe we also unnecessarily raise our stress levels and exhaust ourselves. Many small choices can be made spontaneously, simply picking one out of two cans of peas, trusting our ability to pick right and trusting our ability to deal with the results of our choice no matter what they turn out to be. Without thinking, you pick one. And you would probably pick the same one again, because you have an opinion, a preference. And it wouldn't surprise me if, with practice, what I now see as more difficult choices could become more like picking cans of peas in the super market.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Omoi Otoshi]

it has nothing to do with growing older in the Dharma, either - it just means growing up some and not seeing one's opinion as truth, and always trying to find the other side.

_/\_

/Pontus

[disastermouse]

I'm guessing there are still opinions/preferences, but they are dealt with in a different way, or not at all. This is what I meant with "freedom from opinions in the midst of opinions". No internal discussion, no judging this and that, no worrying over choosing this or the other, no checking back to make sure your opinions are politically correct or that you won't look stupid. Trusting your opinions, so that you can stop worrying about them. And when you see opinions as opinions, views as views, they lose their power over you. Just opinions and views, not who you are.

Without opinions we wouldn't function very well. Imagine walking through the super market just picking things up randomly, without any regards to cost, whether you actually need it etc. Freedom from opinions in the midst of opinions means we don't have to work ourselves up over every little difference in price, quality or expiry date. When without thinking we blow every little choice out of proportion, I believe we also unnecessarily raise our stress levels and exhaust ourselves. Many small choices can be made spontaneously, simply picking one out of two cans of peas, trusting our ability to pick right and trusting our ability to deal with the results of our choice no matter what they turn out to be. Without thinking, you pick one. And you would probably pick the same one again, because you have an opinion, a preference. And it wouldn't surprise me if, with practice, what I now see as more difficult choices could become more like picking cans of peas in the super market.

Gassho,
Pontus

It's interesting how you found refuge in an example of consumer choice as the metaphor by which to expound - it shows just how much marketplace thinking has come to dominate our consciousnesses. One brand of cereal is as good as any other, all opinions have merit, etc...

Except they don't as they apply to an actual referent. That is to say, all things are open to interpretation, but some interpretations are vastly more accurate, and hence qualitatively better, than others. For instance, a better informed opinion is likely to be more accurate. It's not a guarantee - a 'community of the qualified' once insisted that the sun revolved around the earth....but these exceptions pop out so much because of their relative infrequency.

My point is that qualitatively equating all opinions is a particularly insipid trap that should be resisted.

Chet

[Stev]

My point is that qualitatively equating all opinions is a particularly insipid trap that should be resisted.

"Resistance is futile." The Borg