For Saya

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40838

    #46
    Originally posted by Taigu
    Then Bro...

    Why Metta or keeping anybody in our thoughts?
    If this is all Abracadra and useless magical thinking , what to say of the Japanese ending of the Hannya Shingyo and its ridiculous phonetical rendering of the original Sanskrit? What to say of the Enmei Jukku Kannon Gyo and the content of all the dedications we sing?



    In my humble lineage, there is a strong mystical element at work, a powerful perception of nature and its forces, elements of shamanism, far from the shores of cynicism and the only trust in gold and gun power. I am not far from the sufi poets anf feel at home in Shinto shrines ( what seems to irritate you in Hixon s prose is what I love) Taking action and playing my part in the visible world, I also surrender to the unknown and celebrate the oneness of all things. Dreams, visions and symbols play their part in this,I am not forcing anything, just allowing the dance.

    And you do too!!! that s why your rejection is a bit out of tune with your song.

    The source of it all being, and there we agree, the boundless empty field of Shikantaza.

    Gassho


    Taigu
    Hi Taigu,

    I feel for the suffering of Saya and all the poor people in wars around the world. And for that very reason, I will not throw more ceremonies, religion and superstition at the problem. In fact, religion and superstitions of all kinds (religious, social, political) are part of the cause of Syria's predicament. I believe that there are endless mysteries in life, but I will not substitute magic and fairy tales. That will not help Saya, only perhaps make us feel better.

    The Mantra at the endless-ending of the Heart Sutra, I translated into English (Gone, Gone, Gone Beyond) and perhaps would be better to chant that way (maybe I will start). "Kannon" for me is a paradigm and symbol who lives primarily in our own hearts and hands, and is "real" in the world when we act with compassion. Same for "hungry ghosts", made real by the endless greed in our hearts. I do not believe in the piggy bank of "Merit", so replace the "Dedication of Merit" of our rituals with a simple "Dedication" expressing an aspiration for how the world could someday be. The Kesa is a symbol we have agreed upon by convention to stand for these Teachings. When I "sit with" someone's problems ... a sickness, a death, a lost job, a victim of war ... I do not do so with any belief whatsoever that the sitting will work a cure or help the economy or make peace. Rather, I sit in "Emptiness" where there is no one in need of healing from the first, nothing to stop, nothing to gain. Then, rising from the cushion, maybe we can do something to actually make a difference (that is Zazen too).

    I think we need less hocus pocus and mumbo jumbo and funny hats around here, not more. Sorry, although I can appreciate the "Gate of Sweet Nectar" of Knrisna Das as a lovely little peaceful tune, I associate it in my mind with the larger magical and esoteric ceremony of which it is part. I will have no part of it.

    For all his little quirks, my Lineage is quite squarely with Nishijima and his ilk. I am no simple materialist (neither was he) and, truly, "there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy". I am one with nature and its forces, honor the mystery too, and I am no fan of guns or gold. But I would like to send the shamans and garden sprites and flying carpets and devas packing. That is my way of helping Saya and the world.

    Yes, it is good we have perhaps a couple of flavors of Practice around here.

    I am hereby going to ask my students, Hans, Fugen, Dosho, to chant "It's A Small World" each day, with all their hearts (serious request). Maybe "We Shall Overcome" too. It will help Saya.

    Gassho, J
    Last edited by Jundo; 08-30-2012, 10:28 AM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • kosen
      Member
      • May 2011
      • 31

      #47
      The problem is also historic: in the traditions of India and in the Tibetan Buddhism very influenced by India, it is possible to act on the world by the thought or the word (in Tibetan Bön also). On the other hand the Chinese Buddhism, then Korean and Japanese, is more philosophic. But it is always dangerous to believe that we can act on the world, to dominate it, also techniques developped by these traditions come from India are hidden, secret. For my part, I always found very difficult to accept the world, to let come the sufferings, I think even more difficult than to act on the world, even if it is necessary to help and to keep the ideal of the bodhisattva. So I welcome the feelings of all those who think of Saya, I shall welcome too her face in my heart, with most compassion which I can.
      Kosen

      Comment

      • Hans
        Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 1853

        #48
        Hello,

        if there is only one person reading this thread who somehow assumed that posting a link to a mere seven lines worth of poetically expressing/condensing a certain sentiment was somehow in support of practising esoteric ritual instead of getting one's ass in gear (to my knowledge the Zen Peacemakers Orders has been very engaged it seems btw.) in this world I apologise for my posting it and for not being opposed to the idea that one could chant it daily as an expression of one's bodhisattva precepts.

        I think Jundo is making a very valid point regarding needless esotericism and wishful thinking, I just find using the original idea of this thread as a context for making this point quite tasteless.


        Gassho,

        Hans Chudo Mongen

        Comment

        • Heisoku
          Member
          • Jun 2010
          • 1338

          #49
          I am happy that we are all aware that in sitting together we strengthen our own compassion and practice and also if others notice this then perhaps they will take inspiration from this action. As for other forms of communication, chanting or no chanting it's the intent that counts IMHO. And the whole of the Prajna Paramita Sutra points to the fact that there are more things beyond heaven and earth.
          And as a friend would say, Taigu and Jundo you are both blooming marvellous!
          Heisoku 平 息
          Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

          Comment

          • RichardH
            Member
            • Nov 2011
            • 2800

            #50
            I do not know if forming an intention and expressing it influences minds elsewhere. I can't honestly be certain. There is a cultural conditioning in this brain ... whenever there is a sudden danger to someone's life and limb, the words "God forbid" .. pops out under my breath. It just happens, goofy maybe, but in that instant it is 100% sincere.. I vote both sending best intention and getting busy were possible at the same time.

            ...and agreed "Taigu and Jundo you are both blooming marvellous!"


            Gassho.

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40838

              #51
              Yes, I am certain I over-reacted, confusing the lovely song with that silly ceremony. My apologies.

              I will never let fairy tales, superstition and incantations in the door here, and I sometimes may over-react at the mere hint. Again, my apologies. But honestly, I think that such things are what Saya ... and we ... truly do not need in the face of such ugliness.

              Gassho, Jundo
              Last edited by Jundo; 08-30-2012, 03:09 PM.
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • alan.r
                Member
                • Jan 2012
                • 546

                #52
                Sitting this morning for Saya, for all things, with all things, as all things, wholeheartedly sitting, bowing.

                Gassho,
                alan
                Shōmon

                Comment

                • Mp

                  #53
                  Originally posted by pinoybuddhist
                  I was actually thinking how refreshing it is to see that the two of you don't always agree (though you usually do).
                  I agree ... I feel these kind of action/reactions show the true grace of a teacher(s).

                  Gassho
                  Michael

                  Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

                  Comment

                  • Nengyo
                    Member
                    • May 2012
                    • 668

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Jundo
                    Yes, I am certain I over-reacted, confusing the lovely song with that silly ceremony. My apologies.

                    I will never let fairy tales, superstition and incantations in the door here, and I sometimes may over-react at the mere hint. Again, my apologies. But honestly, I think that such things are what Saya ... and we ... truly do not need in the face of such ugliness.

                    Gassho, Jundo

                    I agree. To me, invoking superstition is no different than the endless facebook slacktivism declaring that if you "like" some photo you somehow helped fight hunger. It is worse than ineffective, as it allows you to feel like you have accomplished something without having done anything.
                    If I'm already enlightened why the hell is this so hard?

                    Comment

                    • Omoi Otoshi
                      Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 801

                      #55
                      Sat for Saya tonight.
                      /Pontus
                      In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
                      you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
                      now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
                      the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

                      Comment

                      • Shugen
                        Member
                        • Nov 2007
                        • 4532

                        #56
                        Originally posted by catfish
                        I agree. To me, invoking superstition is no different than the endless facebook slacktivism declaring that if you "like" some photo you somehow helped fight hunger. It is worse than ineffective, as it allows you to feel like you have accomplished something without having done anything.
                        I have the same reservations with the "metta chant". But, I do it anyway because I just don't know. Even if it just puts me in the shoes of another, makes me consider another viewpoint... I just don't know.
                        Meido Shugen
                        明道 修眼

                        Comment

                        • Nengyo
                          Member
                          • May 2012
                          • 668

                          #57
                          Originally posted by rculver
                          I have the same reservations with the "metta chant". But, I do it anyway because I just don't know. Even if it just puts me in the shoes of another, makes me consider another viewpoint... I just don't know.
                          I view the metta chant as being practice for me. Practice at showing compassion for people that I am normally neutral towards or flat out dislike.
                          If I'm already enlightened why the hell is this so hard?

                          Comment

                          • Myozan Kodo
                            Friend of Treeleaf
                            • May 2010
                            • 1901

                            #58
                            Sat for Saya tonight.
                            /Pontus
                            And I like Pontus.
                            Gassho
                            M

                            Comment

                            • Omoi Otoshi
                              Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 801

                              #59
                              Please bear with a few late night ramblings without much coherence...

                              I believe that we all change the world and the world changes us. The state of our body-mind constanly affects those around us and those around us constantly affect the state of our body-mind. When we are poisoned with greed, hate and delusion, we unconsciously express it with our whole body, our whole presence, even when we don't say a single word. A very unbalanced person can make all those around him or her uncomfortable. That discomfort may develop into fear, the fear may lead to anger and anger to hate (as master Yoda would have said) and the poison turns into a contagious disease.

                              But the opposite is also true. And this is where I feel practice changes the world. When you are free from the three poisons, you instead radiate peace, compassion, kindness, which is contagious too. You start to really see people, really listen to people. And people feel more confident and secure around you. Healing takes place and spreads like rings on the water. Like a butterfly flapping its wings on one side of the globe could cause a hurricane on the other, a kind word could have greater consequences than we can imagine.

                              None of us are insignificant, unimportant. The ability to change the world is a super power we all possess! We are all part of the whole (all of the whole even), so it is vitally important that we take care, because it does matter.

                              So take care,

                              Gassho,
                              Pontus
                              In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
                              you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
                              now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
                              the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

                              Comment

                              • Omoi Otoshi
                                Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 801

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Myozan Kodo
                                And I like Pontus.
                                Gassho
                                M
                                I like you too!

                                Hugs and kisses,
                                Pontus
                                In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
                                you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
                                now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
                                the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

                                Comment

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