Buddha and Christ

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi,
For those of you that follow both the Buddha way and the Christian path, a new film is out that may interest you. It figures Robert Kennedy SJ, an American Catholic priest and Zen Roshi in the White Plum lineage. He teaches here in Ireland sometimes and has an association with Black Mountain Zen Centre in Belfast.

More info here:

http://buddhisttrends.com/jesus-buddha-new-film-exploring-practicing-across-traditions/1261/

Gassho
Myozan

[Shujin]

Looks interesting -- thanks for sharing. It'll have to go on my Christmas list. I'm always happy to see substantive inter-faith dialogue, especially as I live in a part of my country where it's a rare thing.

Gassho,
Shujin

[Ekai]

Sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Gassho,
Ekai

[Jundo]

A review of a recent book on the subject, with interviews with several non-two practitioners of both ways ...

Buddhist and Christian?: An Exploration of Dual Belonging
By Rose Drew

http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/web-archive/2012/3/16/walking-with-buddha-and-christ.html

[Dosho]

My father, who has flirted with Buddhism in the past, very much enjoyed this book which in the end confirmed to him his status as a Christian:

http://www.amazon.com/Without-Buddha-Could-Not-Christian/dp/1851686738

Gassho,
Dosho

[Onken]

I read a bit about Father Kennedy and his understanding and practice of both Christianity and Buddhism. While the two religions differ on the after life, I think they are very similar. I remember Father Kennedy talking about how Zen has helped him develop a better understanding of Christianity. All in all, two roads up the same mountain.

[Seishin the Elder]

May I drop a word here and heartily recommend two books I have found wonderfully relative to spmeone breathing with both lungs. Benedict's Dharma: Buddhists Reflect on the Rule of Saint Benedict edited by Patrick Henry. and Without Buddha I Could Not Be a Christian by Paul F. Knitter. The latter book I found in the bookstore of a Benedictine retreat center. Both books truly spoke to my heart as a "Buddhadictine" )as my cousin calls me.

Gassho

Seishin Kyrill

[Jundo]

May I drop a word here and heartily recommend two books I have found wonderfully relative to spmeone breathing with both lungs. Benedict's Dharma: Buddhists Reflect on the Rule of Saint Benedict edited by Patrick Henry. and Without Buddha I Could Not Be a Christian by Paul F. Knitter. The latter book I found in the bookstore of a Benedictine retreat center. Both books truly spoke to my heart as a "Buddhadictine" )as my cousin calls me.

Gassho

Seishin Kyrill

Thank you, Fr. K.

[Jinyo]

May I drop a word here and heartily recommend two books I have found wonderfully relative to spmeone breathing with both lungs. Benedict's Dharma: Buddhists Reflect on the Rule of Saint Benedict edited by Patrick Henry. and Without Buddha I Could Not Be a Christian by Paul F. Knitter. The latter book I found in the bookstore of a Benedictine retreat center. Both books truly spoke to my heart as a "Buddhadictine" )as my cousin calls me.

Gassho

Seishin Kyrill

Thank you - I have ordered the first book

Gassho

Willow

[Mp]

Thank you Myozan ... I was just having a chit chat with my good friend last night about this. He was always curious about whether the two could blend or work together, so I shared the link with him.

Gassho
Michael

[Jundo]

We have had a few threads in the past on this and related topics ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7956-Priests-and-Priests-Walking-the-Buddhist-and-Christian-Path&p=45741&viewfull=1#post45741

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9878-Zen-teaching-from-a-Christian&highlight=christian

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9557-For-Kyrillos

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?9144-Christmas

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8067-An-unzen-spouse

Gassho, J

[Stephanie]

I sat a few times with Robert Kennedy's group in Jersey City, and he comes across as very impressive - charismatic, clear-minded, and welcoming (I recall the way after the morning's sitting and talk were over, the cushions were cleared and a table was set up for folks to eat, drink tea, and connect in conversation) without trying to sell any particular point of view. I have also since spent time with Dharma heirs of his of whom I have a good impression also. But I retain a skepticism about how anyone could still embrace some of the Christian tenets of faith after spending time sincerely practicing Zen.

Now, the Christian moral vision - or at least the ideal form of it - of emphasizing love, healing, and forgiveness, is one I can embrace wholeheartedly. I find Christ to be a very inspirational figure. However, where I leave off is Christian metaphysics; this notion of the whole point of your faith being to ask for forgiveness so that, no matter how terrible what you did was, you can go to heaven and look down on the unfortunate ones who did not share your belief system and are burning in hell. I find this unethical; how could you enjoy heaven knowing that people are burning in hell? How can you worship a God that would punish anyone for eternity, much less those who simply believed the wrong thing? Plus I find the popular idea of the Christian afterlife to be very childish and ego-serving, and completely incompatible with teachings on impermanence and non-self in Buddhism. And yes, we can say, "Oh, but these things are meant metaphorically," but I find that a cop-out and patronizing to the majority of Christians in this world for whom these notions of eternity are at the center of their faith and are not taken as only metaphor.

I also have problems with the concept of God as most people who use that word seem to understand it - a cosmic father figure with "a plan for me." I think that this notion is actually an obstacle to spiritual maturity, which in my view requires the radical realization of responsibility and aloneness. No, we are not alone in the sense that we are a part of this world, part of humanity, and part of the "greater whole" of life and the cosmos. But we are alone in the sense that there is nothing greater than me that can absolve me of the responsibility for my own life and choices, or relieve me of the discomfort of realizing that none of us know the reasons for which we came, if any, and the place to which we are headed - if any. And yes, this view is very much part of traditional Buddhist teaching, where it is taught that there is no god or gods who have the answers for us.

It is very scary to contemplate the possibility that my life may have no greater meaning, that there may not be any "plan" or purpose for my life, that I, like many others, could simply suffer misfortunes that were not sent by a divine parent as lessons for me. I think our consolation as Buddhists is that we don't need to be special - there does not need to be a preordained meaning or a cosmic parent with a lesson plan for us, because our individual lives are simply an expression of, and chance to experience, something that is greater than the happenstance of one individual life - the chance to be conscious, to love, to have the courage to do what is right and change the world for the better, to taste a strawberry. Well, some apologists may say, that is what I mean when I say "God" (I suspect Robert Kennedy may be one of them but I cannot say for certain) but I think that is true of only a very small minority of people for whom a Christian faith is important, who believe on some level that death is not a final goodbye to those we love and the efforts we put into our lives.

I have been struck more than once by Jundo's willingness to take on what he sees as fairy tales and "hokum" as far as more "woo-woo" elements of Buddhist tradition or things like "chi," but how he is very cautious and hands-off regarding the beliefs and faith that Christians who want to "dual practice" Buddhism and Christianity bring with them. I've got no evangelical fever with Buddhism that I need to go out and "convert" non-Buddhists, but I do feel uncomfortable when Christians come into the Buddhist arena and do not have any of their metaphysics questioned in the same way that Zen practice asks us to question everything we believe or want to believe. For me, this practice has never been about choosing comfort over the search for truth, and I do not think it true Zen practice if one refuses to question or examine what they think and believe.

[Jundo]

I have been struck more than once by Jundo's willingness to take on what he sees as fairy tales and "hokum" as far as more "woo-woo" elements of Buddhist tradition or things like "chi," but how he is very cautious and hands-off regarding the beliefs and faith that Christians who want to "dual practice" Buddhism and Christianity bring with them.

Well, I might say that my attitude is to question possible "hokkum" and "woo-woo" wherever found ... be it in some elements of Buddhism, elements of Judeo-Christianity, New Age beliefs, UFO hunting, quack medical cures, or even an overly religious faith in "science has all the answers". Science does not have all the answers, only some very useful and informative ones.

On the other hand, I also say that "one man's 'hokkum' is another man's 'Holy Truth'" What is 'woo-woo' for one may be good medicine for another! So, I do not shut my mind, and I am always willing to say that some things many be true or right for another. Maybe the Buddhist and Christian saints did perform miracles seemingly challenging the laws of physics, maybe crop circles are made by aliens, maybe laetrile does cure cancer, maybe Loch Ness has a monster. I have my doubts (to the point of not believing really), the evidence seems questionable, but who knows?

What is more, not everyone approaches their faith in Jesus, Jehovah or (the very similar) Amida Buddha and the like in a simple, cartoonish way. At a more subtle level, Amida Buddha and the "Pure Land" have been found quite compatible with Zen Practice ... so why not Jesus? Searching for inner power ... searching for outer power ... yet beyond all thought of "in" or "out".

Gassho, J

[Risho]

Yeah, I agree with that as well. There is so little that we know about the universe, let alone who or what or anything created it. But I'm a product of nurture and nature as we all are. I was raised in a Judeo Christian culture, and I belive in a Judeo Christian God.

I don't have a need to defend or promote that belief because I don't feel threatened about it. I love God, and I love Christ. I don't picture God as a father figure sitting on a throne with a long white beard. I'm not that naive. That isn't Christianity to me either. Neither is the sort of Christianity that separates others into different groups and judges them. Neither are the large organizations that use the name but do not practice the spirit of it. But I'm an iconoclast. I was confirmed in the Greek Orthodox church, married in a Catholic church. I don't go to Church, but I love God.. no doubt about it. I pray for others and myself regularly on a daily basis. Faith is an integral part of my life.

I don't believe being Gay or not believing what I believe or anything will get you into Heaven or Hell. In fact, I don't know anything about Heaven or Hell, but I do know that I don't feel it's my place to even consider who is qualified for those places, if in fact those places exist. And believing in such places is not key in believing in Christ. Because, like Zen, I feel that Christianity is about finding oneself in their love and service to others rather than searching for some fabled reward after we meet our end.

Faith is very personal, and sure there are contradictions. But life is rife with contradiction. Like I said, I can't defend my beliefs. I have them, and I try to live up to them. That includes my path in the Buddhadharma and my faith in Christ.

Personally, I don't find any conflict with those two things, and I'm really glad that Kyrillos is part of this sangha; he's been an absolute inspiration for me.

Gassho,

Risho

[Omoi Otoshi]

Zen is the direct pointing path. For a Christian practicing Zen, it may be pointing directly at god. This pointing may change one's view of god forever, or even make one drop all views regarding god.

Gassho,
Pontus