Question about parents and unattachment

[RichardH]

I'm sorry to hear so many sad stories... Separation would be very hard. I hope things work out.. as adults they have the freedom and the choice to connect.

My son was born at 27 weeks... very premature, weighing 2 lbs... with many developmental consequences.. His upbringing has involved intensive intervention.


Gassho, kojip

[Shohei]

Lovely thread, great replies! Thank you all for sharing.

How do you live unattached to your kids?

I do not. I live quite attached, as others have mentioned, knowing full well I will suffer as that is my duty to them. In the same breath, my non-goal, is to allow them to just BE.
This all said I realize they will be gone and bow to that too.

How do you teach unattachment to them?

I do not, I let them experience it all as it comes, if they ask me about such a thing I address it as best I can.

When our cat went out one morning (to die) and did not return, after a couple of days I realized what had happend as did my daughter, and she asked where the kitty was.
I said at that point she was a great kitty, and she went off on her own because she knew she was going to die. This obviously was upsetting and she cried (me too a bit, had this cat for 10 years or so). She then asked why I let her go die (face palm) and so I explained it was her desire to leave naturally, and that is what they did before being pets to prevent harm from coming to their family, we being that family she was a very kind being that did not want any harm to come to us and so she did what was natural to her. Now my daughter already knows the ins and outs of food chain and survival etc in wild animals as she is much smarter than her old man- and this made some sense to her. For days after I let her be with it. If she asked I explained. If she cried I held her and listened. She asked if there was a kitty heaven and I said that I did not know, but if there is one, she would be there. What else can we do?
My own experience of loss and suffering are what ended up bringing me here, to this point in time, to practice, to my wife and now our kids etc. I will not work to interfere with these lessons, just be there when they are inevitably bumped into.


Gassho

Shohei
(who is still learning!)

[Mp]

Michael,

My experience is similar to yours. My daughter got in contact with me via Facebook and for a full year I got to talk to her, even on video! It was a magical experience.

Sadly, her mom did not agree of that and she had to delete her Facebook account.

All I can do is wait until the time is right again.

Hope things go better with you and your daughter.

Thank you for sharing.

Gassho,

Kyonin

Thank you Kyonin ...

I am sorry to hear about the road block you are facing with your daughter, it is very hard! I wish you all the best and hope one day your daughter's mother will see the value of allowing that connection between you two.

Gassho
Michael

[Dosho]

Kyonin,

Shohei spoke my mind already, so I will simply include the following:

A friend of my wife's who already had kids asked me once what parenting method I had chosen before our first son was born. My reply? "Well, my goal is to keep the kid alive...everything else is gravy!"

I did not have a parenting method and still don't...I just wake up every day and do my best. I am very attached to my children and likely always will be. They are very attached to me and hopefully they will become less so if I allow them to come into their own. I will tell them about non-attachment, but only in subtle ways and never pushing anything on them.

That's all we can do.

Gassho,
Dosho

[richss]

This thread is great and prompted me to come out from lurking to simply express another part of this parenting and attachment discussion. Particularly from a greenhorn like me.

I'm a stressed out, neurotic guy. This is something I am coming to accept about myself. Since I joined Tree Leaf, I have made begun reflecting upon the times in which I become stressed, angry, frustrated, etc. Much of it involves attachment. Attachment to my title at work, attachment to my sense of duty at home, etc.

I have come to realize that this too includes attachment to my children. My first daughter is a three year old. As with all three year olds, they have a tendency to act out. I found that this led to some strong emotions. What I have learned is some of these are simply a normal part of being a parent, but in other cases it goes back to attachment: attachment to my expectations of the child and attachment to my expectations of myself as a parent. I'm learning or at least trying to learn to live more in the moment, to reflect upon my emotions as they occur, and continue my practice through zazen.

Gassho,

Richard

[Myoku]

I think its pretty ok to be attached to your children, very natural. My view is that we just have to drop our attachments on _our_ ideas on how they have to behave, what they have to like, to do and most important who/what they are going to be. By allowing my children to find their own way (which not means not to guide them at times), they have the chance not to become a clone of my dreams and believes. This is something I need to remember and often forget.
Just 2c from the average dad
_()_
Myoku

[Ekai]

Thank you for sharing this, Taigu. I definitely relate in this.

Once upon a time I also had to say good bye to my baby and leave. Her family portraits me as the incarnation of evil, so I don't get to see her.

Since then I had to learn how to live attached-unattached.

Gassho, Kyonin

Taigu and Kyonin, thank you so much for your story. When I was 14 through about 21 years old, for 7 years, I was estranged from my dad. We had a big fight while I was visiting him in Pennsylvania, and I traveled back home to Illinois early. It was a typical fight between a teenager and parent. However, his girlfriend at the time convinced him to not contact me and my mom. My dad's girlfriend had psychological issues which was one of the reasons for her to response this way. And my dad has dealt with depression and alcoholism his entire life that resulted in low confidence and self-esteem so he was easily manipulated. So, we didn't have any contact with each other for about 7 years and it was heartbreaking. I really missed him and it did impact my life.

When I was 21, my loving grandmother died of cancer. My grandmother and I were close so her death was very painful. Well, my dad had moved back to Illinois and heard about her passing. So there I was grieving with my mother and family at my grandmother's wake and guess who walks in the door, my dad. After 7 years of not speaking to each other, at my grandmother' funeral, we finally spoke to each other. Actually, we hugged each other when we first saw each other. It was one of the most emotional moments in my life. My dad and I have been close ever since. In fact, my son and I just visited him last weekend. It was a lovely time.

I hope the both of you will have the opportunity to reconcile with your kids. It's very painful to be separated from your family no matter what place you are in your lives.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Koshin]

Taigu and Kyonin, thanks for sharing such difficult stories... it is so sad when one of the parents teaches hatred instead of love... I hope reconciliation it somewhere near

Kojip, I know that your son requires a lot of care but I think the results have been good, if I am not mistaken. You must feel so proud of him

Gassho

[Risho]

Wow, thank you for sharing your crazy and personal stories.

I don't have children, but I would have to imagine that it is our relationships with family, friends and children that we should be attached to... not an overly attached way, but a sacrificial I will do anything for that person way. In a sense, isn't that the way of the Bodhisattva?

Anyway, I really just wanted to chime in to thank you all for your sharing of the difficulties you've had.

Gassho,

Risho

[RichardH]

Kojip, I know that your son requires a lot of care but I think the results have been good, if I am not mistaken. You must feel so proud of him

Gassho

Thankyou.. he is doing great, and is a typical enough kid now, to be a typical pain in the ass...

Gassho, kojip.

[Dosho]

Kyonin,

By the way, here's an example of my parenting style: I was playing Star Wars III on the Wii with my oldest son (7) and were playing two levels where the objective is to destroy Yoda statues. We each had a vehicle that could destroy a different kind of item, me gold, him silver. So, only one of us could destroy the shield generator guarding the statues, leaving the other to get into position to destroy the statue itself. On the first level he had to destroy the shield generator and once it was destroyed I started to destroy the statue. He said, "Hey...wait for me to do that!" So, I did. On the next level, I had to destroy the generator and after I did, he immediately started destyroying the statue. In a tone, just slightly mocking but not mean, I said "Hey...wait for me to do that!" He turned around and gave me a smile...but continued to destroy the statue and blew it up. He was still smiling, but having a hard time looking me in the eyes, when I said to him, "Did you like it when I waited for you?" "Well, yes.", he replied. "How do you think I felt when you didn't wait?" He paused for a long time, still smiling, but understanding what I was saying, and looked into my eyes and said, "Sorry Dad."

You never know when a lesson will come up when you are a parent. I always tell people that being aware of this is so important, but don't always assume you'll be the teacher and your child will be the student. I'm sure within a few days or so I'll have an example of where he taught me something, perhaps even the same lesson. But I'll only catch it if I pay attention.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Dosho]

Not 15 minutes after I posted the last message I wondered why my wife hadn't come home. I was just about to call her when I overheard that same 7 year old telling his 3 year old brother, "Mommy's not coming home for dinner...she'll be home later. Daddy's making it." So, I quickly made dinner.

Now who's the one not paying attention?!

Gassho,
Daddy Forgetful

[pinoybuddhist]

Just wanted to echo what Myoku said. My son is a great teacher in this regard because one moment he's the sweetest, cutest, funniest toddler, all smiles and hugs - and the next he's all WAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!! and I feel like AAAAARRRRRRGGGHHH!. Let me add that it's not just our ideas on how they should behave but also how we should parent them. I have a lot of ideas about parenting, and I'm sure they're useful - but they're also just ideas.

I think its pretty ok to be attached to your children, very natural. My view is that we just have to drop our attachments on _our_ ideas on how they have to behave, what they have to like, to do and most important who/what they are going to be. By allowing my children to find their own way (which not means not to guide them at times), they have the chance not to become a clone of my dreams and believes. This is something I need to remember and often forget.
Just 2c from the average dad
_()_
Myoku

[Martin]

Sad, heartbreaking stories. My heart goes out to you.

I think being a parent involves heartbreak. And joy, yes, and worry (and, in the UK, a lot of university fees). But also heartbreak. One way or another ones loses them in the end.

And that's simply as it should be, as it is. And the heartbreak is as it should be, as it is also. The thing is, not to be attached to not being heartbroken. Sigh.

Gassho

Martin