The self, that we will all realize does not exist–with our prolonged practice–is this self the same as ego?
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My name is: Jordan. -
Self is your identity or "soul". Ego is believing in self importance. Both of which exist and do not. My opinion only. See Taigu's hermitage poem
Daido -
in subjective terms you can believe in yourself (self). you can also believe that yourself is important or not important (ego). Not sure what else you are looking for? Maybe you are making some kind of profound zen like statement?
DaidoComment
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No, it's good stuff. I'm seeing them as merging together–like body/mind–where the belief inherently creates importance. But, if that is the distinction, thank you for pointing that out.My name is: Jordan.Comment
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When thinking of "self" I think more of an ontological entity, experienced existentially. "Ego", for me, is a psychological name for a batch of mechanisms that occur based upon assumptions made about the reality of the self-in-the-world.
The substantial nature of each maybe questioned at will.
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The basic view across Buddhist traditions is that all things (including body and mind) are impermanent and without an unchanging self-essence.. or experiencer. This absence of an abiding self-essence is called Anatman. Anatman is an upaya, or an antidote, to the sickness of self-view, and not an absolute truth to be clung to. In other words, don't get stuck in "no self"
There is a very real "person", or social agent, called Bob, or Sue... who is responsible for conduct and so forth. That social "self" needs psychological and emotional health.
In short, within society this body and mind has agency, but within this body and mind no absolute agency can be found.
But it is better to not ruminate on this, and just practice with the guidance of a teacher and the support of a sangha.
Gassho, kojipComment
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Hi,
Please stop all this wasteful semantic discussion.
The sense of "self" is that self image "I" hold of my "self" separate from all things the "my self" deems "not myself" ...
... and the "self" is that selfish wanting, judging, dividing, categorizing, remembering, hoping, fearing, missing, running toward and running away, sense of birthing, sense of remaining, sense of dying that one can soften, and often fully drop away, in Zazen.
That is all you need to know. Not rocket science.
The rest of this discussion is a waste of breath. Call it "ego", call it "self", call it "atman", call it "dingo wingo", call it whatever the hell your self wants.
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 07-24-2012, 09:41 PM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Ok. No more wasteful discussion.
Gassho, kojip.Comment
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Hey, Jundo.. Do you want to hear a silly bit of self? I actually thought for a moment of apologizing for posting my response... ..an ordinary response.. within the terms of service.
Gassho.Comment
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Ah, well, speaking for myself ... I hope I did not bruise anyone's ego.
Gassho, JALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Easily bruised, easily forgotten...
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The skin's pretty thick here...especially since you're right
DaidoComment
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No. I disagree. Ego is not just believing in self-importance. It's thinking that identity is real. If you try to reify anything like a soul or identity....well, that's hopelessly wrong-headed.Self is your identity or "soul". Ego is believing in self importance. Both of which exist and do not. My opinion only. See Taigu's hermitage poem
Daido
There is no soul. There is no self. And yet, rejecting self too vociferously becomes an expression of self. Looking to put your foot firmly on any ground regarding these questions becomes an expression of self-delusion.
IMHO, of course.Comment
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