Rising doubts outside meditation

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  • Patrick
    Member
    • Jul 2011
    • 30

    Rising doubts outside meditation

    Hello,

    this is probably normal, but I often have doubts when I am not meditating (not during the moments I am meditating).

    Is my posture is correct when I meditate ?
    Does this type of meditation is good for me ?
    Do I meditate in a bad way?

    And so on ...

    You have probably experienced this too. What do you do in those moments?

    Ignore it ?

    Thank you.

    P.S. Please excuse the mistakes I have probably made, english is not my first language.
    Patrick__________________________
    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire
  • Rich
    Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 2602

    #2
    It took me a long time to balance my head on my spinal column or at least feel balanced. I still have knee and back pain after more than two sitting sesshins
    but it is what it is. If I get tired of sitting I stand. I guess I'm willing. To change.
    _/_
    Rich
    MUHYO
    無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

    https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 39456

      #3
      Hi,

      Below is what we usually say, and I would suggest that you treat it as a Koan when these questions arise. You find a balanced posture that feels right, and that allows you to forget about it ... then you forget about it, and also forget all thought of "right and wrong" posture. We try to sit "right" ... but have a special view of "wrong and right". It may seem counter-intuitive, but doing it "right" fully transcends "right" ... and the payoff comes when the need for a payoff is radically dropped to the bone.

      -----------------------------------------

      Well, it may sound counter-intuitive, but our way is Shikantaza, which is sincere and dedicated sitting that's, radically and to the marrow, free of the need to get somewhere, attain some prize, which drops the hunger to attain something ... thus finding the True Home here along. In a life filled with the constant need to get somewhere else, fill some lack, fix what is broken, all that stuff the "me/myself/I" screams for ... dropping all need to get, fill and fix is a powerful medicine ... and the result is (counter-intuitive as it may seem) finally getting somewhere, attaining one's True Home, filling all holes as Whole.

      Here are a couple of talks I ask you to look at ...

      SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHAT'S NEXT!?!
      Almost each week someone asks me, "What comes next in my practice? How do I deepen it? What should I do now? What book should I read with all the secrets? I feel like something is still missing and that I must do more." But how can I respond to such a question when the very heart of this Path is learning to live and


      SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: WHOLLY HOLY WHOLE
      I came across a discussion on the internet this week about "how to Shikantaza" ... and much good and solid advice was given. Some folks follow the breath, some "Just Sit" in boundless spaciousness, some advised this or that on the posture and letting thoughts go. All wise and good, and talk of posture, focus


      Right Zazen and Wrong Zazen
      Hi, I BELIEVE THE FOLLOWING TO BE SO VITAL, FOR NEW AND OLD, THAT I AM GOING TO MAKE A SPECIAL REPOST. It is the "there is good Zazen, and bad Zazen ... but never any bad Zazen" post ... _________________________________________________ Hey All, I would like to repost something that I think is important to


      Gassho, J
      Last edited by Jundo; 07-15-2012, 01:27 AM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • ZenHarmony
        Member
        • Feb 2012
        • 315

        #4
        I understand how you feel, Tetsugakucha, since I've questioned if I was doing it right recently. For me, posture is important; in order to be able to breathe fully, I find that I need to think of my torso as a trunk of a tree, rooted in the zafu, which opens up my chest and allows more airflow. I practice this off the zafu as well, so that when I am sitting, it feels more natural and allows me to forget my body. That is the most important thing, to find a form that is natural and comfortable so that you forget about your body while you sit and that it doesn't interfere with your practice.

        Gassho,

        Lisa

        Comment

        • threethirty
          Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 170

          #5
          I had this happen recently but it was durring my zazen

          This didn't solve it but cleared alot of it up.... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly". I found that all the stuff I was "supposed" to be doing were there for a reason
          --Washu
          和 Harmony
          秀 Excellence

          "Trying to be happy by accumulating possessions is like trying to satisfy hunger by taping sandwiches all over your body" George Carlin Roshi

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 39456

            #6
            Originally posted by threethirty
            .... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly".
            Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

            Gassho, J
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • disastermouse

              #7
              Originally posted by tetsugakucha
              Hello,

              this is probably normal, but I often have doubts when I am not meditating (not during the moments I am meditating).

              Is my posture is correct when I meditate ?
              Does this type of meditation is good for me ?
              Do I meditate in a bad way?

              And so on ...

              You have probably experienced this too. What do you do in those moments?

              Ignore it ?

              Thank you.

              P.S. Please excuse the mistakes I have probably made, english is not my first language.
              Hopeless. It might be a big mistake to focus so hard on doing it correctly. One of the easiest ways to avoid being here is to have a technique for 'being here'. Shikantaza isn't a technique, and that's why it's so hard to explain.

              IMHO.

              Chet

              Comment

              • Mp

                #8
                Originally posted by Jundo
                Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

                Gassho, J
                Diddo! I too remember when I first started zazen and all the thoughts of right or wrong were dancing in my head. Its a funny thing though, when you drop those thoughts, everything finds it's place in it's very own ... like it knew where to be all along.

                Gassho
                Michael

                Comment

                • Patrick
                  Member
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 30

                  #9
                  Thanks

                  Thank you to all for your replies.

                  A special thanks to Jundo


                  Gassho,
                  Patrick__________________________
                  Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
                  The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

                  Comment

                  • Patrick
                    Member
                    • Jul 2011
                    • 30

                    #10
                    Hi !
                    Someone asked a very interesting question to me : why do you ask yourself those questions ?

                    Well, If I asked these questions of the correct practice, I think it is because we all ask ourselves these questions periodically. I also think it is in part why there are Zendos (Sanghas). It is also part of the practice to help each other when we have moments of doubts. Thanks to all of you for your presence. Gassho,
                    Patrick__________________________
                    Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien. -Voltaire
                    The better is the enemy of the good. -Voltaire

                    Comment

                    • Myoshin

                      #11
                      Hello

                      Taigu had pretty teachings in video about posture, as me He was trained in France with a perfect posture but it involves sometimes big pain, he told me once it's not a question of doing a military posture, pain don't go away after years of sitting. We must be confortable to be sitted. (I hope that I don't say anything wrong, I don't want to speak for him neither)
                      Do I meditate in a bad way? I think that we feel this "somethink taste" when we do shikantaza, we can feel it intuitively (correct?).
                      This way of meditating is good for me? I think yes, I feel good most of time in zazen, and I notice that this way is good for me if I check the influences out of the zazu, in my daily life

                      Just my experience

                      Gassho Testu

                      Yang Hsin

                      Comment

                      • Myoshin

                        #12
                        About the posture, I remember sesshin here, when I had not a straight posture, too relax beacause of my mind, I received 2 kyosaku hit without asking
                        I don't think it is a good way to be guilty about it

                        Gassho

                        Yang Hsin

                        Comment

                        • charst46
                          Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 28

                          #13
                          Sitting is an interesting process. From awareness of breath to awareness of hearing to awareness of breath and hearing to awareness of breath, hearing, seeing the wall to awareness of awareness...what a tumble. But as someone posted earlier, I try not to buy them all a drink.

                          Gassho.

                          Thank you to all the posters and the insight they have provided.

                          Charlie

                          Comment

                          • Marek
                            Member
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 161

                            #14
                            Jundo

                            Quote Originally Posted by threethirty View Post
                            .... I gave up on all things I was hung up on... posture, mudra, time, what i did with my legs, all of it. Just for a day or so. Then got right back to doing it "correctly".
                            Yes! Constantly, completely and immediately give up on all of it ... posture, mudra, time, legs, all of it ... even as you sit in a balanced posture, with hands as a mudra, legs some comfortable way, for a timeless time ... moving forward and getting better while sitting still!

                            Gassho, J
                            That was a key for me to ,,understand" zazen at the very first time. I understood that correcting my posture does not mean ,,correcting" zazen. And That allowed me to give up all of it, and at the same time still looking forward for more balanced posture (and I still have to do it!).

                            Gassho,
                            Marek

                            Comment

                            • disastermouse

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Marek
                              That was a key for me to ,,understand" zazen at the very first time. I understood that correcting my posture does not mean ,,correcting" zazen. And That allowed me to give up all of it, and at the same time still looking forward for more balanced posture (and I still have to do it!).

                              This is awesome! Very clear description.

                              Gassho

                              Comment

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