Taigu's Bulls

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

For Chet

Two rats at a polluted puddle.
One a reflection of the other.
But which one?


Thanks Taigu. I just wrote the poem inspired by your words. A deep bow for your teachings.

PS: I used to watch the bull on my Uncle Noel's farm when I was a child. He drank from a stream that goes through his land. I've also seen rats at puddles. But that is of no consequence. I could imagine them too. I could imagine the bull in a distant time and place. There are no restrictions. Everything is available.

[disastermouse]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

I wasn't talking about availability, I was talking about immediacy, but I get your point.

Taigu: I need to study more. Gassho.

Chet

[Jinyo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Hi Chet - as Taigu says - you make a valid point.

Plenty of space for both ways of coming at things - but you did
hit the nail on the head (again - you often do). I had been thinking
to myself that it's important to find our own metaphors - whilst learning from
and appreciated the past.

I find your thoughts here enlivening - you are not afraid to say what you think.
Perhaps you feel the presentation is too direct/or comes across in a negative/critical manner - but I wouldn't worry - we are
all different - not a bad thing to have different styles.

Thank you

Willow

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

How about a verse guys?
Gassho
Myozan

[disastermouse]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

How about a verse guys?
Gassho
Myozan

I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it. That's not an indictment of anyone else's poetry though.

Chet

[Kyonin]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

LOL

You are right! That's my bad English working. Thanks Shokai.

I will sit with that

Choco;

May be a language thing but, don't sit on it; sit with it :lol:

And Myozan; not full, just down a quart. :lol:

[andyZ]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it.
Chet

Chet,
That's the problem with self-attachment. That's why "the delusions are inexhaustible".
PS. Btw, I feel the same way, but working on it

[alan.r]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it.

Chet

Ah, this is a little sad, to me. And I hate to steer the topic away from the original question (why are we using old forms and images?), but poetry is almost dead as a popular form, especially in this country, and I think it's because of this feeling. Many people get the idea that poetry, in general, is pretentious, for stuck up, intellectuals. And if you write poetry then you're the height of pretentiousness. I realize you're saying you feel this way about yourself, but this is also the attitude I find from most non-poetry readers (the cause is diverse: pop culture, tv, all the other entertainments, etc). Anyway, the reason for this is often under-exposure both to poetry and of poems (and I'm not saying this about you necessarily): people who don't like poetry or find it pretentious are the same ones who don't read it (because it's not accessible) and don't write it. Anyway, just as someone who values poems and fiction, I urge you to share something! Though of course, no need to worry about it either. It's not that big a deal.

Also, the idea that we have to find new forms and images and metaphors: this is essentially (at least in the West) the time in the art (literature) world called Modernism (1890-1930s) and then Post-Modernism. There's actually been, along with tons of experimental writing, a huge push back in the last thirty or forty years toward older forms. And this isn't to say that we're not meant to find new images and explore and invent, but as Willow says, this exploration always goes on with a strong association and appreciation of the past - the place where the new and old meet.

In any case, I apologize for the literary history. Back to the cushion for me!

Gassho,
Alan

[Jinyo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Hi Alan - I have always enjoyed poetry - both reading and writing it - so I'm with you on this.

... but just wanted to clarify - when I said about finding a personal metaphor I wasn't really thinking about
tradition ( and movements within literature/poetry/art etc).

I was thinking more of the freshness of the equivalent of 'beginners mind'.

... if that makes any sense?

Gassho

Willow

[alan.r]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Hi Alan - I have always enjoyed poetry - both reading and writing it - so I'm with you on this.

... but just wanted to clarify - when I said about finding a personal metaphor I wasn't really thinking about
tradition ( and movements within literature/poetry/art etc).

I was thinking more of the freshness of the equivalent of 'beginners mind'.

... if that makes any sense?

Gassho

Willow

That makes absolute sense. And I agree with you, but with a difference. Sometimes, to me, beginner's mind can also be a reach back into the past. Anyway, I was just coming at it from a different angle. Also, living in the kind of writing world I sometimes live in, the "need" for originality, uniqueness, and experimentation gets a little stale in my opinion. To me, whether the form is old or new, whether the subject is old or new, what matters is the way in which the language unfolds: in clarity and simplicity (not simpleness). If the poem/writing is able to convey some complex truth or emotion in a precise, simplistic way, then: a bell resounding in and through me. Old form, new form, old images, new images, whatever; each and all beginner's mind; if clarity and simplicity ring through the thing, that's it.

Gassho,
Alan

[Myoku]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Bulls are just bulls,
Mirrors are just mirrors,
more I dont know.

_()_
Myoku (the un-poet)

[Heisoku]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Two bulls meet
And enter the stream.
The reflection of the stream
Is the bull's drinking.

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Two bulls drinking:



PS: I like the verses above. Gassho. Myozan.

[Taigu]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Just loooooooooooooooooooooooooove it!


gassho

T,

[Jinyo]

Re: Taigu's Bulls

Two bulls - empty stream
horns lock
eyes lock
reflected gaze
into infinity

Gassho

Willow

(those bulls have taken up residence in my head :shock: )