Taigu's Bulls

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  • Myozan Kodo
    Friend of Treeleaf
    • May 2010
    • 1901

    #16
    Re: Taigu's Bulls

    For Chet

    Two rats at a polluted puddle.
    One a reflection of the other.
    But which one?


    Thanks Taigu. I just wrote the poem inspired by your words. A deep bow for your teachings.

    PS: I used to watch the bull on my Uncle Noel's farm when I was a child. He drank from a stream that goes through his land. I've also seen rats at puddles. But that is of no consequence. I could imagine them too. I could imagine the bull in a distant time and place. There are no restrictions. Everything is available.

    Comment

    • disastermouse

      #17
      Re: Taigu's Bulls

      I wasn't talking about availability, I was talking about immediacy, but I get your point.

      Taigu: I need to study more. Gassho.

      Chet

      Comment

      • Jinyo
        Member
        • Jan 2012
        • 1957

        #18
        Re: Taigu's Bulls

        Hi Chet - as Taigu says - you make a valid point.

        Plenty of space for both ways of coming at things - but you did
        hit the nail on the head (again - you often do). I had been thinking
        to myself that it's important to find our own metaphors - whilst learning from
        and appreciated the past.

        I find your thoughts here enlivening - you are not afraid to say what you think.
        Perhaps you feel the presentation is too direct/or comes across in a negative/critical manner - but I wouldn't worry - we are
        all different - not a bad thing to have different styles.

        Thank you

        Willow

        Comment

        • Myozan Kodo
          Friend of Treeleaf
          • May 2010
          • 1901

          #19
          Re: Taigu's Bulls

          How about a verse guys?
          Gassho
          Myozan

          Comment

          • disastermouse

            #20
            Re: Taigu's Bulls

            Originally posted by Myozan Kodo
            How about a verse guys?
            Gassho
            Myozan
            I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it. That's not an indictment of anyone else's poetry though.

            Chet

            Comment

            • Kyonin
              Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
              • Oct 2010
              • 6742

              #21
              Re: Taigu's Bulls

              LOL

              You are right! That's my bad English working. Thanks Shokai.

              I will sit with that

              Originally posted by Shokai
              Choco;

              May be a language thing but, don't sit on it; sit with it :lol:

              And Myozan; not full, just down a quart. :lol:
              Hondō Kyōnin
              奔道 協忍

              Comment

              • andyZ
                Member
                • Aug 2011
                • 303

                #22
                Re: Taigu's Bulls

                Originally posted by disastermouse
                I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it.
                Chet
                Chet,
                That's the problem with self-attachment. That's why "the delusions are inexhaustible".
                PS. Btw, I feel the same way, but working on it
                Gassho,
                Andy

                Comment

                • alan.r
                  Member
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 546

                  #23
                  Re: Taigu's Bulls

                  Originally posted by disastermouse

                  I always feel trite and pretentious writing poetry anywhere anyone can see it.

                  Chet
                  Ah, this is a little sad, to me. And I hate to steer the topic away from the original question (why are we using old forms and images?), but poetry is almost dead as a popular form, especially in this country, and I think it's because of this feeling. Many people get the idea that poetry, in general, is pretentious, for stuck up, intellectuals. And if you write poetry then you're the height of pretentiousness. I realize you're saying you feel this way about yourself, but this is also the attitude I find from most non-poetry readers (the cause is diverse: pop culture, tv, all the other entertainments, etc). Anyway, the reason for this is often under-exposure both to poetry and of poems (and I'm not saying this about you necessarily): people who don't like poetry or find it pretentious are the same ones who don't read it (because it's not accessible) and don't write it. Anyway, just as someone who values poems and fiction, I urge you to share something! Though of course, no need to worry about it either. It's not that big a deal.

                  Also, the idea that we have to find new forms and images and metaphors: this is essentially (at least in the West) the time in the art (literature) world called Modernism (1890-1930s) and then Post-Modernism. There's actually been, along with tons of experimental writing, a huge push back in the last thirty or forty years toward older forms. And this isn't to say that we're not meant to find new images and explore and invent, but as Willow says, this exploration always goes on with a strong association and appreciation of the past - the place where the new and old meet.

                  In any case, I apologize for the literary history. Back to the cushion for me!

                  Gassho,
                  Alan
                  Shōmon

                  Comment

                  • Jinyo
                    Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 1957

                    #24
                    Re: Taigu's Bulls

                    Hi Alan - I have always enjoyed poetry - both reading and writing it - so I'm with you on this.

                    ... but just wanted to clarify - when I said about finding a personal metaphor I wasn't really thinking about
                    tradition ( and movements within literature/poetry/art etc).

                    I was thinking more of the freshness of the equivalent of 'beginners mind'.

                    ... if that makes any sense?

                    Gassho

                    Willow

                    Comment

                    • alan.r
                      Member
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 546

                      #25
                      Re: Taigu's Bulls

                      Originally posted by willow
                      Hi Alan - I have always enjoyed poetry - both reading and writing it - so I'm with you on this.

                      ... but just wanted to clarify - when I said about finding a personal metaphor I wasn't really thinking about
                      tradition ( and movements within literature/poetry/art etc).

                      I was thinking more of the freshness of the equivalent of 'beginners mind'.

                      ... if that makes any sense?

                      Gassho

                      Willow
                      That makes absolute sense. And I agree with you, but with a difference. Sometimes, to me, beginner's mind can also be a reach back into the past. Anyway, I was just coming at it from a different angle. Also, living in the kind of writing world I sometimes live in, the "need" for originality, uniqueness, and experimentation gets a little stale in my opinion. To me, whether the form is old or new, whether the subject is old or new, what matters is the way in which the language unfolds: in clarity and simplicity (not simpleness). If the poem/writing is able to convey some complex truth or emotion in a precise, simplistic way, then: a bell resounding in and through me. Old form, new form, old images, new images, whatever; each and all beginner's mind; if clarity and simplicity ring through the thing, that's it.

                      Gassho,
                      Alan
                      Shōmon

                      Comment

                      • Myoku
                        Member
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 1487

                        #26
                        Re: Taigu's Bulls

                        Bulls are just bulls,
                        Mirrors are just mirrors,
                        more I dont know.

                        _()_
                        Myoku (the un-poet)

                        Comment

                        • Heisoku
                          Member
                          • Jun 2010
                          • 1338

                          #27
                          Re: Taigu's Bulls

                          Two bulls meet
                          And enter the stream.
                          The reflection of the stream
                          Is the bull's drinking.
                          Heisoku 平 息
                          Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

                          Comment

                          • Myozan Kodo
                            Friend of Treeleaf
                            • May 2010
                            • 1901

                            #28
                            Re: Taigu's Bulls

                            Two bulls drinking:



                            PS: I like the verses above. Gassho. Myozan.

                            Comment

                            • Taigu
                              Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 2710

                              #29
                              Re: Taigu's Bulls

                              Just loooooooooooooooooooooooooove it!


                              gassho

                              T,

                              Comment

                              • Jinyo
                                Member
                                • Jan 2012
                                • 1957

                                #30
                                Re: Taigu's Bulls

                                Two bulls - empty stream
                                horns lock
                                eyes lock
                                reflected gaze
                                into infinity

                                Gassho

                                Willow

                                (those bulls have taken up residence in my head :shock: )

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