The pursuit of happiness, or not

[AlanLa]

I have been noticing lately that happiness is happy, but the pursuit of happiness may be unhappy. When happiness happens, be happy, but chasing after happiness may be filled with peril. The pursuit doesn't have to be perilous, but too much certainly could be. If I could graph it the shape would be an upside down "U" where it's going good for a while but then too much turns it around and becomes bad. After all, pursuit is a form of desire, but the desire of happiness can lead to unhappy suffering. Just separating out the occurrence of happiness from the pursuit of such an occurrence is an interesting form of practice I have been discovering lately.
What makes me happy, really?
How can I facilitate that without ruining it at the same time?
It's sort of like a koan.
I see Barry Magid has a book on this topic. I will have to get it and add it to all my other books-to-be-read list.
In the mean time I will just sit and let the discovery process continue.

[AlanLa]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

I forgot to say that I think we often mistake the pursuit of happiness for happiness itself, and that seems like a pretty good recipe for dukka. Many people these days feel they are doing all the things they need to in order to be happy, or so they think, but they are not happy and wonder why. I think the reason could be the mixing up of pursuit with the actual state of happiness.

[Koshin]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Thanks for sharing

_/_

[Rich]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence and considered by some as part of one of the most well crafted, influential sentences in the history of the English language.[1] These three aspects are listed among the "unalienable rights" or sovereign rights of man.


Its like the pursuit of food and shelter - ya gotta do it.

[Jundo]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

When happy, be very happy. Don't cling to the happiness though, let it go.

When sad, be just sad. Don't cling to sadness however, just let it flow.

Do not pursue happiness, even as one pursues it. Do not run from sad things, even as one does one's darndest to run from sad things! Drop all desires thoroughly and put the little self out of a job ... even while desiring stuff in moderation, without clinging. (All this is -not- a contradiction for Zen folks) :shock:

All through, learn to allow and to drop all small human judgments of "happy" and "sad" in a moment of Shikantaza ...

... thus finding the Suchness, Contentment, Wholeness and Joy that sweeps in and out both life's "happy" and "sad".

It ain't rocket science. No need to draw a curve, and just make a straight line to the Zafu! 8)

Shikantaza.

Gassho, Jundo

[andyZ]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Alan, I think that pursuit of happiness could be the happiness itself if you don't separate them. Where does "pursuit" end and "happiness" begin? Every time we recite the bodhisattva vows we set our mind on saving all sentient beings, but how is it different from setting on a "pursuit of happiness for all beings"? Just my 5c.

[Rich]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

My grandparents always said 'if you have your health you have everything' . When I got really sick in my late teens the doctor made it worse and that's when I realized I had to to take 100% responsibility for my health and happiness. Embracing the moment of not knowing doesn't leave much room for attachments. Some days are better than others. The pursuit is just action. forgive my rambling, just had some coffee.

[tedmac]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

The pursuit of happiness is a metaphor. Happiness isn't a rabbit, or a car, or any kind of "thing" that you can "pursue"; it is a concept--and our thinking about it is strongly affected by our language. The metaphor of happiness-as-thing (or knowledge-as-thing, or suffering-as-thing, etc.) is just a tool we use for thinking about our own thoughts. English speakers tend to conceptualize happiness as a thing, and so do speakers of many other languages, but it isn't a thing. That doesn't mean it isn't real, in the sense of originating as a dependent phenomenon, but that you can't stub your toe on happiness. What is a rabbit before you name it a rabbit? What is happiness before you name it happiness?

Untei

[Jinyo]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Just remembering the children's song...

If you're happy and you know it clap your hands
if you're happy and you know it clap your hands
if you're happy and you know it
then you really ought to show it
if you're happy and you know clap your hands.

... trouble as adults - half the time we don't know it, show it - and chase after it.

Authentic happiness is deep inside us - pre-language/concepts, etc -

let's all

Gassho

Willow

[Risho]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

When happy, be very happy. Don't cling to the happiness though, let it go.

When sad, be just sad. Don't cling to sadness however, just let it flow.

Do not pursue happiness, even as one pursues it. Do not run from sad things, even as one does one's darndest to run from sad things! Drop all desires thoroughly and put the little self out of a job ... even while desiring stuff in moderation, without clinging. (All this is -not- a contradiction for Zen folks) :shock:

All through, learn to allow and to drop all small human judgments of "happy" and "sad" in a moment of Shikantaza ...

... thus finding the Suchness, Contentment, Wholeness and Joy that sweeps in and out both life's "happy" and "sad".

It ain't rocket science. No need to draw a curve, and just make a straight line to the Zafu! 8)

Shikantaza.

Gassho, Jundo

Gassho...

I've noticed during zazen that thoughts and feelings come up. Sometimes I get feelings of extreme confidence and certainty in myself. Sometimes I get feelings of uncertainty, and I can feel my body literally get cold. Sometimes I get feelings of anger as I imagine conversations with someone where I prove myself right, them wrong, and they have to pay for it!!! And I feel my body get warm.

The more I practice the more I'm beginning to allow myself just observe that stuff and not attach to it during sitting (and in daily life). But I've also noticed something really interesting. Not only do I try to hold onto good feelings, but I actually find it challenging to sometimes just be able to observe and let go of the anger and fear/uncertainty. I always assumed that I would want to push those bad feelings away, but I do often find that I try to grab on and relive those feelings... very strange but interesting.

Risho

[Rich]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Authentic happiness is deep inside us - pre-language/concepts, etc -

let's all

Gassho

Willow

[AlanLa]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

If Vegas was able to take bets on such things, I would've cleaned up on what Jundo said. I had it pegged pretty darn close. I would only add that when be sad, go ahead and be sad, but go do something that might bring you happiness so that you are less sad. It's the old acceptance without acceptance. For example, if you are sad, be perfectly sad; but if talking a walk in the woods makes you happy, then go take that walk in the woods and be perfect in the happiness that it brings. I will be placing a heavy bet in Vegas that Jundo will agree on this. Cha-ching!

Just to be clear on some of the other postings, I am talking in the very practical sense of happiness as a "thing" that we pursue. I concede that it is not a "thing" and that authentic happiness is available within us at any moment through our practice. I further concede that "pursuit of happiness" is a metaphor that has been reified, just as is the concept of happiness as a "thing," but all of this is part of my point. We really do chase after this thing called happiness to the point of unhappiness rather than allowing happiness to occur more naturally, and I think this happens mostly out of awareness.

One of the great things about zazen is how it slows life down as your awareness grows. We get conditioned in life to do all these things that we think make us happy, but the longer I do zazen and the more I study the self in this "happiness" the more I realize (a very s l o w process) that happiness isn't the "thing" I thought it was, and that some of the activities I did to try and achieve happiness didn't really make me happy. In other words, the delusions are beginning to be transformed. I am learning to separate out the things that really do bring happiness from those that I just thought they did, and this seems to break down into being vs. doing. I know that is a very dualistic way to think about it, but again, I am being very practical here and purposely not using too much zennish language or concepts. For example, it's not so much what I do with friends as it is being with them, or even it's not so much going out with friends (doing) as it is being at home on my own. And when it is a doing-type of activity like teaching, I am very much just being a teacher in those moments. But if I take it too far and start to stay home alone all the time as a means of chasing after happiness, then I am probably going to end up miserable, or if I go overboard on teaching to the point of neglecting other important aspects of my life and self-care, then that is a disaster waiting to happen. So I've been taking an inventory of what makes me be happy and what doesn't but I do because of old habit and/or delusion of happiness.

I hope this makes sense, as I am still learning how to make sense of it myself.

[will]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Happiness is the quite moments, in between the pursuit.

W

[Taigu]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

Very good thread, indeed.
Happiness does not seem to be the priority of our path. Not a state. Not something else to crave for. Resistance brings a lot of suffering into our life, the closer we are to the balanced state and to acceptance of things, we are then happy. We can be happily unhappy. Just being and not clinging.


gassho

Taigu

[markkemark]

Re: The pursuit of happiness, or not

I am pursuing happiness by trying to make my family and friends more happy...and it does make me happy...plus I have been donating to charities lately and this makes me happy. I have been making all of this a major priority on my path...am I going about it the wrong way?