Online practice: Zendo etiquette

[Risho]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I enjoy that too . Like others I bow to my laptop/ipod. Then I prepare my zafu, bow and face the wall and bow. After zazen I fix up my zafu bow bow to my laptop/ipod and then bow to my altar.

I have a question. If I join a hangout thats in progress I typically mute it so current sitters dont hear my bells (read ipod timer zazaen bells). Should I just leave it off mute or is it distracting and better left on mute.. Yes I know nothing interrupts Shikantaza but I dont want to be rude. Now if Im starting the hangout i leave it off mute and it wouldnt bother me to hear others environmental noises or bells because thats what is happening with us at that moment. So mute or no mute if joining someone elses hangout?

Gassho

Risho

[Shugen]

Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I like the fact that even if the person joining in on a sit already in progress is on mute, Google Plus makes a little noise to let the person sitting know. I can't count the number of times my mind has been wandering, and that little Google Plus noise has brought me back.

I mute my microphone but keep my speakers on.

Ron


Shugen

[Dokan]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I mute my microphone but keep my speakers on.

Ditto. When I was sitting publicly I would mute my speakers as well but that was because I'd have people join that were just curious what I was doing and so didn't always maintain silence. But with just Treeleafers I normally leave speakers on and mic muted as well.

Gassho,

Dokan

[Risho]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

Cool deal. But if I'm on mute u all wont get to enjoy my karaoke. Hahaha

[Kyonin]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I normally bow to the G+ zendo and to all in there. I also bow to anyone who is around me here in the house. Sometimes it's my girlfriend and sometimes it's the kitty.

About the mic, I normally turn my mic off because I live in a VERY noisy street.

It's been a while since I did my morning zazen on G+ due to my noise PC, but I think I'll just log in from the laptop. I kinda miss sitting with you guys.

As online practice emerges, it seems to naturally evolve its own etiquette. For example, even when sitting on Google+ alone, I bow to the webcam at the start and end of a sit. It is bowing to the Sangha. And even when sitting alone you experience the support of the Sangha: any of whom may enter the Zendo at any time as you sit. This means you tend to sit for 30 mins if that's what you set out to do. It supports your intention to sit.

Does anyone else have etiquette practices they have developed for their online practice?

Gassho
Myozan

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

Really interesting reading about all your practice.

It seems people come to a Zendo expecting a relatively quiet place to sit. So, I agree that should be respected (mute mic in a noisy environment). However, they also come to sit with others: and that means human presence (those ruffles of cloths, odd coughs, ambient noise, etc). Here there is a Middle Way.

That might be: when noisy, mute. When not, then leave the sound up.

The gassho at the beginning and end makes sense. It also makes sense to gassho when entering late, although I think the gassho by those already sitting when the latecomers enter should be optional.

What about facing the wall or webcam? Entering a bricks and mortar Zendo one sees the backs of everyone sitting, as they face the wall. And when you sit beside someone you can see them side-on. Does that mean back or side on is fine, but sitting facing the webcam is less preferable?

Also, who should ring bells and when?

Gassho,
Myozan

[Myoku]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

What about facing the wall or webcam? Entering a bricks and mortar Zendo one sees the backs of everyone sitting, as they face the wall. And when you sit beside someone you can see them side-on. Does that mean back or side on is fine, but sitting facing the webcam is less preferable?

Also, who should ring bells and when?

Basically I believe we face the wall in our tradition, so this is no question for my sitting. As I face the wall, those who face the camera surely not disturb me :lol: ...however, from my experience one might not be free on where to place the camera (I use a notebook and the camera is built in, furthermore I only have sufficient WLAN signal on one side of the room), so I think we might be flexible with this one.

About the bell I think who opens the hangout (who is first) might ring a bell at start and end, IF (!) not otherwise agreed, in example the Shokai/Myoku hangout you see in the calendar is always Shokai ringing the bell, no matter who opens the hangout. If so agreed I think thats pretty perfect.

Myozan, I much appreciate your efforts to put a certain frame on this important part of our practice in this place "G+", thank you so much!

_()_
Myoku

[Dokan]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I kinda miss sitting with you guys.

You still sit with me every morning! Roky too!

Gassho,

Dokan

[Shokai]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I sit within 1 meter from a wall with a low cabinet at my knees on which my netbook sits. So, I end up facing the screen. Upon entering "my zendo" before seating myself (non-self) I gassho to the wall, turn counterclockwise and gassho to the universe(all sentient beings), sit down and turn counterclockwise to face the wall, put on the rakusu, adjust sitting position and start or join a hangout. As Myoku mentioned, since the beginning of ango last year, since I use Insight Timer as a timer we just waited for each other to start and I controlled the bells. Since then, as people joined in at the same time, they adapted to that pattern. We are open to change if some one would like to suggest it as change is an inevitable in life. :shock: 8)

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I wonder does this need regulation at all. It seems to self-regulate. It has it's own natural dynamic. What does everyone think? Do some basic guidelines help a smooth group sitting online? What do you think Fugen? I know you're interested in this question.
Gassho
Myozan

[Ryumon]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I don't think it needs "regulation," but just as we have guidelines of how to sit - bow, rock side to side, etc. - it's probably a good idea to have guidelines for online sitting. My guess is that any zendo has such guidelines for when people join a sit in progress...

[Shokai]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

Myozan wrote;

The gassho at the beginning and end makes sense. It also makes sense to gassho when entering late, although I think the gassho by those already sitting when the latecomers enter should be optional.

Kirk weote;

My guess is that any zendo has such guidelines for when people join a sit in progress...

Personally, I just know if you had been caught up in traffic and arrived late, how (warm/friendly) it felt to be silently welcomed. Didn't happen often but, It also felt as if you were doing something good to support a late comer. Actually, when you think about it, perhaps it encouraged people to be on-time so as not to be centered out :roll: :lol: Whichever, I should point out, there were no written rules and Ian's suggestion of 'optional' seems fair and good.

[Tb]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I wonder does this need regulation at all. It seems to self-regulate. It has it's own natural dynamic. What does everyone think? Do some basic guidelines help a smooth group sitting online? What do you think Fugen? I know you're interested in this question.
Gassho
Myozan

Hi.

I think that it would be good to have some sort of "guidelines" on how we in Treeleaf Sangha behave while sitting online, and that it might be appropriate to start looking into what they might look like, and even though they might be selfregulating it would be good to have them written down somewhere so that anyone interested can view them. And i don't mean that we have to have an wordfeud over the exact wording of every phrase, but to have some sort of "simple guidelines" on this.
I would also encourage everyone to join in on the discussion around these "guidelines".

As for me, i think that an gassho when joining is appropriate manner, although if you're not facing the screen, or otherwise not being able to view the screen, you shouldn't have to gassho back.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Kyonin]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

I agree. It would help a lot to have some guidelines, but as I can see, we all have developed our own personal system.

Which is not bad at all, but if there was some official Treeleaf suggestions, that would help people starting up with zazen.

I don't know. Just thinking.

[Jundo]

Re: Online practice: Zendo etiquette

Hi,

I would suggest that folks not sit Zazen facing directly toward the computer screen or camera. I suggest that you turn your back to the computer, or at least show a side profile, and face the wall instead. We are traditionally wall facers in Soto (although that is changing somewhat in the West).

I face the camera and computer screen for a couple of reasons when recording a sit-a-long, such as that the Teacher in Soto usually faces into the room while all others face the wall in order to monitor things (and also I face the computer in case of a technical glitch arising). However, although I do so ... I do not suggest it for most folks.

We do not care really about disturbance during sitting, nor direction, nor noise, nor what we are staring at or is staring at us. HOWEVER, simultaneously, we usually seek to sit in a place with minimum distraction, noise, visual stimulation and the like. Once again, we are seeking to do seemingly contradictory things at once!

So, I would not be staring directly into the camera and computer, and show one's back or side instead.

Gassho, J