Books on Zen I can use.

[Foursquare]

I just want an opinion on the following books as to their usefulness, with the stress on usefulness, to beginning and continuing Zen/zazen practice. I'd be grateful for the opinion of anyone who has read these books.

I was going to buy and read Kapleau's Three Pillars of Zen, but I've received mixed reports about this book; that being so, yes, I know that there is only one way to find out what it's like and that's to read it but I'd like further opinions.

What I really want is a book that gives me practical advice or instruction in how to practise. To that end, I was also thinking of buying Zen Training: Methods and Philosophy by Katsuki Sekida. Has anyone who has read this book got an opinion as to its merit as a good practical guide to Zen/zazen practice?

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

Hi!

There's a recommended book list here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=889

The top two books, "Zen mind, beginner's mind" and "Opening the hand of thought" are truly inspirational, even though they are not manuals as such. Very honest, very insightful.
I haven't read it but many find "Sit Down and Shut Up" to be a good, no-bullshit "manual".

Personally, I have avoided Three Pillars, even though it's the only book I've found that has been translated into my language. Philip Kapleau in my opinion did much good in spreading Zen to the west, but he's from a different lineage (Harada-Yasutani) with a different practice and reading too much about that tradition with its focus on Koan introspection, Kensho, Satori etc may be confusing things and creating obstacles more than helping IMHO. Kapleau is also not a dharma heir of Yasutani Roshi, even though he got permission to teach, so the Kapleau line starts with him. I'd say the safest bet would be better to stick to the recommended books!

But you don't really need a manual for Zazen. If you go though all the videos in the "Zazen for beginners" section (viewforum.php?f=20) and "Vital points of 'Shikantaza' Zazen" (viewforum.php?f=23), then that is all you need in my opinion.

Gassho,
/Pontus

[Ryumon]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

Three Pillars is interesting from a historical and cultural point of view, but it's not the type of zen we practice at Treeleaf. I read it many years ago, and was turned off by the attitude toward practice it presented: it made practice seem like running a marathon.

[graeme]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

"Opening the hand of thought" helped my practice more than any other book I have read, truly can't recommend it enough.

I like to read both this and the other mentioned book "Zen mind, beginner's mind" every now and again as the longer I practice the more I feel I get from these books, reminds me to keep my beginners' mind :wink:

[Ryumon]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

"Opening the hand of thought" helped my practice more than any other book I have read, truly can't recommend it enough.

Seconded. It's on my to be reread stack in fact.

[Jinyo]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

Hi there - Pontus gives good advice.

I totally scrambled any 'beginners mind' when I joined Treeleaf by reading a crazy amount of books (unfortunately not the first two on the list ops: )
I've gone back to the excellent teaching videos provided by Jundo and Taigu - and realise that by not methodically going through them, at the start, I missed the odd one
that would have explained what I needed to know - or an issue that was holding me back.

I would just like to thank the patience of the teachers here - because I can see now how they are having to explain over and again information that is clearly
given on the site regarding Zazen - and I wonder at the resistance within myself of keep returning to unnecessary blocks to practice :roll:

Gassho

Willow

[Ekai]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

The Zen books I plan on reading will be in accord with the Treeleaf's book club however I want to add sutra study. There are so many books I want to read but too little time. I have not read "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" but I would love to dive into it one day.

Gassho,
Ekai/Jodi

[ghop]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

Hello!

It depends on what you are looking for. The view from the mountain is the same, though we all take different roads to get to the top. Both of those books are great. But here at Treeleaf, we practice a very refined form of Zen, where all that is unnecessary has been shed, leaving only the bright diamond of Reality. So, basically, we read practical books that deal with everyday life. You can't wrong with Suzuki. Even the dude's grocery list was enlightened :mrgreen: . And, if you're ready for it, Joko Beck. She showed me how utterly practical a life of Zen can really be. Oh, and as someone here already said, Opening the Hand of Thought is a must. So clear, so practical, Kosho Uchiyama will never disappoint.

The usefulness of a book depends upon the needs of the reader. Read anything you like. No rules here. Whatever goes in will come out. The greatest book you can read, as you continue sitting, will be the story of your own life. Every day a new page, a new twist.

gassho
Greg

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

The good thing with Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind is that it's just a compilation of talks. You can just read a page or two every now and then. Jump in anywhere! Sometimes I didn't get what the heck he was talking about, but when I returned to that same chapter a year later, sometimes it makes a whole lot more sense (and sometimes, according to Jundo, what may sound very profound may just be Suzuki Roshi's bad english!) I'm starting to hate my current book since a year back, Mysterious Realist... A good book, but one you have to put some effort into I'm afraid... :wink:

/Pontus

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

But here at Treeleaf, we practice a very refined form of Zen, where all that is unnecessary has been shed, leaving only the bright diamond of Reality.

I knew it! :mrgreen:

[Taigu]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

Many words of wisdom here.
Priceless pointings.
Sure Pontus and Greg. Fully with you.

Just another reminder-pointer:

A book, as great as it is, doesn't exist apart from the scenery of the reader's mind.
In other words: you are doing nothing but reading yourself.
Most people are unaware of this.

A useful book???

The book of love, of reality. Here and now. All around-inside-in-between.
Pages are made of breath, words as moments. Suchness and even not... too intellectual to be such.
When thoughts don't give birth to thoughts
When thoughts arise freely from being and return to being
the book is red
the reading only
no book left

just

just

...



gassho



Taigu

[Daijo]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

I never dive too deeply into books anymore. I read them a couple of pages at a time. I keep a copy of Zen Mind Beginners Mind at my desk, used mainly for bathroom breaks. I've worn out my copy of Sit Down and Shut Up, good read. I spend 8 hours at my desk, pop in here from time to time, keep wzen.org on in the background, sometimes I listen, mostly it's background noise.

What I find is, if I have time to read, I have time to sit. So I sit. And I don't need words.

[BrianL]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

I've read tons of Zen books over the years, but only kept a few when we purged the book clutter a few months ago:

Both Suzuki books (Zen Mind & Not always so)
Both Beck books (Nothing Special & Everyday Zen)
Beyond Thinking (Dogen edited by Tanahashi)

I figure this is enough to contemplate for a good many years. I read the Kapleau book early on, but - in retrospect - it only heightened my delusions of 'enlightenment' experiences.

My opinion is that you might want to focus on sitting (and reviewing the excellent 'newbie' videos posted elsewhere in the forum!) rather than reading if you are relatively new; the world of zen literature may help some, but my experience is that it will muddy the water as much as clarify it.

Full disclosure: I am planning on joining the next book discussion, though...

[Koshin]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

A book, as great as it is, doesn't exist apart from the scenery of the reader's mind.
In other words: you are doing nothing but reading yourself.
Most people are unaware of this.

Thank you Taigu, I am (was?) one of those people, never saw from that point of view before ops:

A useful book???

The book of love, of reality. Here and now. All around-inside-in-between.
Pages are made of breath, words as moments. Suchness and even not... too intellectual to be such.
When thoughts don't give birth to thoughts
When thoughts arise freely from being and return to being
the book is red
the reading only
no book left

Beautiful, and simple, Thank you again

Gassho

[Al]

Re: Books on Zen I can use.

"Opening the hand of thought" helped my practice more than any other book I have read, truly can't recommend it enough.

I agree 100%. The is the best manual on zazen, IMHO.

Additionally, this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think Dogen's Shobogenzo Zuimonki (not to be confused with Dogen's better known larger work the Shobogenzo, Treasury of the True Dharma Eye) is one of the most inspiring collections of talks on Zen practice. I find myself returning to it again and again.

Best of all, it's available online for free.

http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/common_ ... index.html