New Wanting to be Buddhist

[disastermouse]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Thanks Jigen. I too didn't get the chance to post this thought I had in response to what was going on over in the original post.

Life sucks(and is simotaniously beautiful!) and everyone has problems!! Perhaps a healthy start is to not have a problem with having problems?

Gassho,
Hoyu

Interesting you brought that up.. I've been reading a book by Steven Hagen Buddhism: Plain and Simple. And one of the points is just that. This is a wonderful, wonderful book!

From pgs 16-17

There is an old story about a man whoe came to see the Buddha because he had heard that the Buddha was a great teacher. Like all of us, he had some problems in his life, and he thought the Buddha might be able to help him straighten them out.

He told the Buddha he was a farmer. "I like farming." he said, "but sometimes it doesn't rain enough, and my crops fail. Last year we nearly starved. And sometimes it rains too much, so my yields aren't what I'd like them to be."

The Buddha patiently listened to the man.

"I'm married, too," said the man. "She's a good wife... I love her, in fact. But sometimes she nags me too much. And sometimes Iget tired of her."

The Buddha listened quietly.

"I have kids," said the man. "Good kids, too... but sometimes they don't show me enough respect. And sometimes..."

The man went on like this, laying out all his difficulties and worries. Finally he wound down and waited for the Buddha to say the words that would put everything right for him.

Instead the Buddha said, "I can't help you."

"What do you mean?" said the astonished man.

"Everybody's got problems," said the Buddha. "In fact, we've all got eighty-three problems, each one of us. Eighty-three problems, and there's nothing you can do about it. If you work really hard on one of them, maybe you can fix it-- but if you do, another one will pop right into its place. For example, you're going lose your loved ones eventually. And you're going to die some day. Now there's a problem, and there's nothing you, or I, or anyone else can do about it."

The man became furious. "I thought you were a great teacher!" he shouted. "I thought you could help me! What good is your teaching, then?"

The Buddha said, "Well, maybe it will help you with the eighty-fourth problem."

"The eighty-fourth problem?" said the man. "What's the eighty-fourth problem?"

Said the Buddha, "You want to not have any problems."

Gassho,

Risho

This is one my favorite parts of BPaS, Risho!


Chet

[disastermouse]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Lou,

In 'Ending the Pursuit of Happiness' Barry Magid asks a question - if your practice was guaranteed to never advance, could you still practice without distress? This is the action of the Bodhisattva. He or she doesn't continue to 'save sentient beings' because he or she is bound by it but because, finally, there is no other real meaningful action. It's always just this.

IMHO

Chet

[Jinyo]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Chet wrote

This is one my favorite parts of BPaS, Risho!

I love that story !

Gassho

Willow

[mr.Lou]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Yes, the universal connectedness is the grand scheme of things in my view. (Inter-)dependant (co-)arising/origination. Without ego there is no clinging, aversion or delusion. This is Bodhi mind, Original mind, Beginner's mind, the mind of true compassion. In this mind, there's no need to try be compassionate. Clinging transforms into compassion, aversion into action and delusion into wisdom. In this mind, compassionate action is completely natural. But most of us don't walk around in this Bodhi mind 24/7, so we need to constantly remind ourselves. Precepts in my view is such a reminder in our practice. When we start breaking precepts, it's a reminder that we need to look inside and check what's going on, what's causing these actions that are most probably born out of the three poisons. Study the self to forget the self. But, at least for me, Zazen is the main reminder. When I don't sit, I find that I easily get lost and that the ego slowly takes over more and more. So I sit, and I am instantly reminded, instantly enlightened. This direct pointing is what I find so wonderful with Zen buddhist practice.

Gassho,
Pontus

Pontus, Yes, I completely agree with your explanation here and I see we are in actual agreement on that point. Thank you for the clarification. I especially like how you highlighted that If we transform ourselves into compassionate beings then we do not have to focus on not acting with ego in pursuit of compassionate acts because it will become our natural tendency without the requirement of purposeful thought to commit compassionate acts.

Through zazen, I feel myself recharged and recovered from the chaos of worry over my daily mental baggage, so I think I understand what you are referring to when you write about your daily practice serving as a reminder. However, here is a curious question that reading this led me to: By emptying our minds through thinking the thought of no-thought during zazen, we open up space for our natural consciousness to flourish. However, does this then imply that when all the distractions of thought are removed that we are all compassionate beings? Is it our true nature to be compassionate?

P.S. What are the three poisons?

[mr.Lou]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Lou,

In 'Ending the Pursuit of Happiness' Barry Magid asks a question - if your practice was guaranteed to never advance, could you still practice without distress? This is the action of the Bodhisattva. He or she doesn't continue to 'save sentient beings' because he or she is bound by it but because, finally, there is no other real meaningful action. It's always just this.

IMHO

Chet

I disagree with Barry Magid's implication here that practice without goals never advances. To imply no advancement is to imply a stagnant position, which would imply that all who practice are unchanged by there practice. If we are unchanged, then what would be the point in practicing: it would mean we were already perfect before we started practicing and therefore needed no practice in the first place.

The idea that a Bodhisattva's actions to help other sentient beings is the result of no other meaningful options for action seems to portray that path as a passive one, which is less likened to the self-sacrificing nature I first assumed was implied by the decision to... this brings a question to my mind: If there is no life, no death, no salvation, no damnation, nothing but the reality of the moment, then where is the self sacrifice or compassion in a Bodhisattva's actions? I don't understand this nature. Don't take this as in anyway reflective of a derogatory attitude toward Bodhisattvas or their vows, but I do not see how there can be self sacrifice when there is nothing being sacrificed. In other traditions their denial to enter Nirvana or escape the Samsara, until all beings can, shows evidence of putting the needs of others first. How is that comparable to the self sacrifice of continuing to be reincarnated in each moment as one progresses to the end of their life in this form?

[Kaishin]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

I do not see how there can be self sacrifice when there is nothing being sacrificed.

Don't get mired in emptiness... mountains are not mountains, but they are still mountains. Mr. Lou isn't Mr. Lou*, but he still has a birth certificate and street address, and can still give his time and energy to help others.

*in that Mr. Lou does not exist without all the causes and conditions and interactions of other people that give rise to what we call "Mr. Lou"

[mr.Lou]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

I do not see how there can be self sacrifice when there is nothing being sacrificed.

Don't get mired in emptiness... mountains are not mountains, but they are still mountains. Mr. Lou isn't Mr. Lou*, but he still has a birth certificate and street address, and can still give his time and energy to help others.

*in that Mr. Lou does not exist without all the causes and conditions and interactions of other people that give rise to what we call "Mr. Lou"

Thank you for that. You are absolutely correct. Intellectualizing is fun, but it definitely can work one into some stick spots. I appreciate the helpful hand getting back up from the mire.

[disastermouse]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Lou,

In 'Ending the Pursuit of Happiness' Barry Magid asks a question - if your practice was guaranteed to never advance, could you still practice without distress? This is the action of the Bodhisattva. He or she doesn't continue to 'save sentient beings' because he or she is bound by it but because, finally, there is no other real meaningful action. It's always just this.

IMHO

Chet

I disagree with Barry Magid's implication here that practice without goals never advances. To imply no advancement is to imply a stagnant position, which would imply that all who practice are unchanged by there practice. If we are unchanged, then what would be the point in practicing: it would mean we were already perfect before we started practicing and therefore needed no practice in the first place.

You misunderstand the implication, or I have poorly explained it. It isn't that one's practice never 'advances' (Although really, what does that mean? How is it judged?), it's that one must come to the cushion with the attitude of acceptance and without what he calls a 'secret practice'.

Chet

[Jundo]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

Learning, to the marrow, that there is no place to advance and no one to advance ... is a GREAT ADVANCE!

Merely because there is nothing lacking, and nothing about you in need of change THAT DOES NOT MEAN that there is nothing about you lacking and in need of change! :shock:

The Practice will change us in countless ways, as we advance down the Pathless Path.

May I point folks to Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (Part XIV) ...

viewtopic.php?p=41795#p41795

Gassho, J

[Omoi Otoshi]

New Wanting to be Buddhist

However, here is a curious question that reading this led me to: By emptying our minds through thinking the thought of no-thought during zazen, we open up space for our natural consciousness to flourish. However, does this then imply that when all the distractions of thought are removed that we are all compassionate beings? Is it our true nature to be compassionate?

P.S. What are the three poisons?

It depends on what we mean by compassion. It can be an act of kindness, the effort to do good and no harm. Nothing wrong with that but it's often ego driven. True compassion is something else in my view. True compassion is the natural result of being aware of true nature. When we see clearly, there's no longer any self to put above anything else, no delusion, no need to do harm. Saving all sentient beings becomes completely natural, because there's no separation between you and all sentient beings. So to me, true compassion is the effortless expression of enlightenment. No trying, no effort, no direction, no expectation, no evaluation, no discrimination, no premeditation, just the natural functioning of Bodhi mind fully awakened. From this point of view, yes, I believe our nature is compassionate.

To me, compassion is the core of Zen buddhist practice.

Gassho,
Pontus

PS. Sorry, the three poisons are greed/craving, hate/anger/aversion and ignorance/delusion. DS.

[disastermouse]

Re: New Wanting to be Buddhist

However, here is a curious question that reading this led me to: By emptying our minds through thinking the thought of no-thought during zazen, we open up space for our natural consciousness to flourish. However, does this then imply that when all the distractions of thought are removed that we are all compassionate beings? Is it our true nature to be compassionate?

P.S. What are the three poisons?

It depends on what we mean by compassion. It can be an act of kindness, the effort to do good and no harm. Nothing wrong with that but it's often ego driven. True compassion is something else in my view. True compassion is the natural result of being aware of true nature. When we see clearly, there's no longer any self to put above anything else, no delusion, no need to do harm. Saving all sentient beings becomes completely natural, because there's no separation between you and all sentient beings. So to me, true compassion is the effortless expression of enlightenment. No trying, no effort, no direction, no expectation, no evaluation, no discrimination, no premeditation, just the natural functioning of Bodhi mind fully awakened. From this point of view, yes, I believe our nature is compassionate.

To me, compassion is the core of Zen buddhist practice.

Gassho,
Pontus


PS. Sorry, the three poisons are greed/craving, hate/anger/aversion and ignorance/delusion. DS.

Interesting that you think compassion is the core of Zen practice - not that I disagree with you - as it's the part I have the most difficulty with. Not that I don't want to practice kindness, but rather that I find it difficult to connect to people consistently. What is the core of the practice for you is the part that I have the most trouble with. How odd.

Yes Jundo, effort with non-effort. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. If effort was not required, as Dogen asked, then why practice? Sometimes it takes a bit of self-prodding to get me to the cushion. Once I'm there, though - not much effort is required.

Chet