Why practice?

[Omoi Otoshi]

Birds sing
Flowers bloom
Enlightened people practice

That is what they do
But is it always so?

Sometimes birds do not sing, but are they still not birds?
Sometimes flowers are not in bloom, but are they still not flowers?
Sometimes enlightened people do not practice, but are they still not enlightened?

Sometimes people think they are enlightened and need to practice
Sometimes people think they are unenlightened and need to practice
Sometimes people think they are enlightened and do not need to practice
Sometimes people think they can never be enlightened and do not need to practice

Does the bird need a reason to sing?
Does the flower need a reason to bloom?

Sometimes people just practice and do not know why
Do not need a reason why


/Pontus

[Tb]

Re: Why practice?

Hi.

_/_

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[RichardH]

Re: Why practice?

There is "nothing to do" (exasperated eyeroll), yet we can can still very much drown in Samsara. I know dukkha, and Non -dukkha, and the difference. So practice is no choice at this point.

[Jinyu]

Re: Why practice?

Does the bird need a reason to sing?
Does the flower need a reason to bloom?

And sometimes there is a practice and no one practicing it...
Practicing or being practiced, with no intentions there is no practice and no practitioner.

Thank you pontus

gassho,
Jinyu

[RichardH]

Re: Why practice?

....and no one flushing hot and cold when the doctor says "cancer"


...pardon moi, that's a bit pointed. No knock on the poetry.

[Kyonin]

Re: Why practice?

Birds are air. Air is life. Life is practice.

Perfect circle.

Thank you, Pontus.

[RichardH]

Re: Why practice?

just to say. My post wasn't meant to foil or be a downer. Fairweather practice, air and birds and circles, is beautiful as beautiful.

Peace. and happy 2012...the whole thing.. Gassho Trealeafers.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Why practice?

There is "nothing to do" (exasperated eyeroll), yet we can can still very much drown in Samsara. I know dukkha, and Non -dukkha, and the difference. So practice is no choice at this point.

Is there ever really a choice? Can we ever not be practicing? Perhaps the only real choice is whether we choose to realize practice as practice.

[Taigu]

Re: Why practice?

Songs birding- blooms flowering ( improvised written crap on why practising)

When shall you wake up to the fact that not a single thing is excluded,
that nothing and nobody can jump out of the circle of as-it-isness,
Not even the person you are?
The whole thing transcends practice and non-practice
every moment the whole body manifests itself and disappears
moon whirls and sun spits
steel and water share the same shadow
dust and gold the same origin
throw away this mind
throw away what throws away too
eyes not even blinking
you will hug your beloved
in the here-now
your beloved will touch you
beyond all touch
for this is you
but you are not entirely it

Nothing hidden, take away; added
two flames meeting
clouds undone in clouds
the vast sky in your hand
mountains-rivers-cities-seas
in your eyes

all is well...

all

is


gassho

Taigu

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Why practice?

Thank you so much Rev Taigu!

That was some golden crap poetry!
Improvised written crap that can be read over and over again, that doesn't make much sense, but speak the universe!

I wouldn't call my lines in the first post poetry... :mrgreen:
Just some childish ramblings from the heart that came up and out in not so many moments, without too much premeditation. My way of telling myself not to overcomplicate stuff, not to think too much about practice, not to practice to achieve, remind myself to return to the beginner's mind.

/Pontus

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Why practice?

There is "nothing to do" (exasperated eyeroll)

Ha ha! Yes, there is nothing to do, so we might as well live and practice! :roll: :lol:

yet we can can still very much drown in Samsara

Yes, we're drowning in each moment!

I know dukkha, and Non -dukkha, and the difference.

I don't know dukkha, at least not intimately. But I can experience the dukka almost every moment. I sure as hell don't know non-dukkha, but I have occasionally experienced a slight lessening in dukkha, enough that I can trust in the possibility of liberation. I don't know the difference, but I have this idea that liberation, freedom from dukkha in the midst of dukkha, might be a difference.

So practice is no choice at this point.

I like to think that there's always a choice. But in the face of eternal dukkha, it would be hard not to practice in any way. The word "self-preservation" came into my mind! That's funny! :mrgreen:

/Pontus

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Why practice?

....and no one flushing hot and cold when the doctor says "cancer"
...pardon moi, that's a bit pointed. No knock on the poetry.

just to say. My post wasn't meant to foil or be a downer. Fairweather practice, air and birds and circles, is beautiful as beautiful.
Peace. and happy 2012...the whole thing.. Gassho Trealeafers.

No worries Kojip. Knock all you want on the "poetry". It's not intended as fine art!
Nothing wrong with being a bit pointed, to the point!

There's a lot of doomsday news and winter depression going on, so if I get to choose, I rather think of birds singing and flowers blossoming than birds dying from cold and starvation and withering flowers. That's self-delusion in a way, but as long as we're not getting lost too much in the illusion, I don't see much harm coming from it. Sometimes though we may feel like all the dukkha in the universe has landed on top of us all of a sudden, weighing us down. In those times, talk about birdsong, flowers and perfect circles might not be what you want to hear... If that is true for you, I apologize. If you only want to point to the whole experience of life and samsara, not just the fairweather part, then that is fair. All is well.

Thank you,
Pontus

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Why practice?

And sometimes there is a practice and no one practicing it...

This point of view I tend to forget. We're so much more used to thinking the other way around.

Practicing or being practiced, with no intentions there is no practice and no practitioner.

And practicing and being practiced at the same time. In no practice/no practicioner practice there is pure practice, the empty practice of emptiness, isn't there? :wink:
Thanks for giving me a head ache! :evil:
I'll just have to let it be for now.

/Pontus

[RichardH]

Re: Why practice?

....and no one flushing hot and cold when the doctor says "cancer"
...pardon moi, that's a bit pointed. No knock on the poetry.

just to say. My post wasn't meant to foil or be a downer. Fairweather practice, air and birds and circles, is beautiful as beautiful.
Peace. and happy 2012...the whole thing.. Gassho Trealeafers.

No worries Kojip. Knock all you want on the "poetry". It's not intended as fine art!
Nothing wrong with being a bit pointed, to the point!

There's a lot of doomsday news and winter depression going on, so if I get to choose, I rather think of birds singing and flowers blossoming than birds dying from cold and starvation and withering flowers. That's self-delusion in a way, but as long as we're not getting lost too much in the illusion, I don't see much harm coming from it. Sometimes though we may feel like all the dukkha in the universe has landed on top of us all of a sudden, weighing us down. In those times, talk about birdsong, flowers and perfect circles might not be what you want to hear... If that is true for you, I apologize. If you only want to point to the whole experience of life and samsara, not just the fairweather part, then that is fair. All is well.

Thank you,
Pontus

It's different for different people maybe , but for me Dukkha is always there, whether it is the beauty of the world or the darkness. The question of the OP was "Why practice" and that is why. Practice is the practice of Non-dukkha in the midst of pleasure/pain. I think that existence, extension in space, time/unfolding is Dukkha, and Dukkha is existence, so there is no Dukha free corner of conditions, only the practice of letting go/be conditions over and over again in all conditions. In a way when things are nice, when things are "going my way" practice suffers more because I can sometimes buy the compensations. Oddly I don't feel bad about the state of the world at all, it doesn't look particularly bad to me, and besides, compared to what? Life is good, it just hurts.

Different strokes. ...and that Op is fine poetry, though I'm not one to judge writing.

[Jinyu]

Re: Why practice?

for me Dukkha is always there, whether it is the beauty of the world or the darkness. The question of the OP was "Why practice" and that is why. Practice is the practice of Non-dukkha in the midst of pleasure/pain. I think that existence, extension in space, time/unfolding is Dukkha, and Dukkha is existence, so there is no Dukha free corner of conditions, only the practice of letting go/be conditions over and over again in all conditions. In a way when things are nice, when things are "going my way" practice suffers more because I can sometimes buy the compensations. Oddly I don't feel bad about the state of the world at all, it doesn't look particularly bad to me, and besides, compared to what? Life is good, it just hurts.

Thank you for this...
Dukkha is also non-Dukkha, a moment of suffering is never totally suffering, there is always the seed of non-Dukkha, joy and equanimity, in every moment.
No need to run after joy or anything to practice non-Dhukkha, just like a moment of true concentration is never 100% concentration, a moment of suffering is never just suffering.

I'm thinking about these guys in camps in all times and countries... even there a smile, an attention could make joy flourish in the flames of suffering...

just thoughts... As always I'm a bit off the subject sorry folks..

Have a very nice day everyone,
gassho,
Jinyu