Drinking as Religion, and other sense pleasures

[Bansho]

Hi,

Great discussion, so many interesting perspectives.

Jundo wrote:

This is not a standard for all monastics, it is a standard for monastics in a particular place and time with a certain narrow view of Practice.

Exactly. The Buddha didn't just sit down and try to think of things which should be forbidden. Instead, each rule arose as a result of a particular real situation which had happened in his Sangha and which was detrimental to the Practice of one or more Bhikkhus. I think if each individual looks clearly at each particular situation and acts in a matter which is beneficial for himself and others she/he will automatically be acting in accord with the Precepts. For example, I think at the right time and place a glass of wine can indeed be beneficial, but for the life of me I can't think of any situations in which 10 glasses would be beneficial...

Gassho
Kenneth

[will]

Kenneth

I think if each individual looks clearly at each particular situation and acts in a matter which is beneficial for himself and others she/he will automatically be acting in accord with the Precepts.

Yep.

Gassho

[Keishin]

drinking as religion

Well after the first drink (it was a 'school night'--it's a 'school night' almost always) I switched to Perrier and a lime. Ikkyu ordered a round for everyone in the bar at 'last call' There was one group at a table in the corner that didn't take him up on it. They seemed to be having a serious discussion--every now and again I'd hear the word 'precepts'--
I lost sight of Ikkyu after he went to pay and just before the karaoke started up again--you know, Ikkyu's got a great voice!
I kept thinking one of you would show up--I mean, it's not like we had a plan to meet or anything--well, maybe next time....until then

happy trails....to you....until..we meet..again...(karaoke gets in the blood as effectively as alcohol I think!!)

(PS the bartender wants to name a special drink in honor of Ikkyu--I couldn't think of any good names, my mind was a blank--anyone got any ideas?)

[will]

Well after the first drink (it was a 'school night'--it's a 'school night' almost always) I switched to Perrier and a lime. Ikkyu ordered a round for everyone in the bar at 'last call' There was one group at a table in the corner that didn't take him up on it. They seemed to be having a serious discussion--every now and again I'd hear the word 'precepts'--
I lost sight of Ikkyu after he went to pay and just before the karaoke started up again--you know, Ikkyu's got a great voice!
I kept thinking one of you would show up--I mean, it's not like we had a plan to meet or anything--well, maybe next time....until then

happy trails....to you....until..we meet..again...(karaoke gets in the blood as effectively as alcohol I think!!)

hehe :lol:

(PS the bartender wants to name a special drink in honor of Ikkyu--I couldn't think of any good names, my mind was a blank--anyone got any ideas?)

How about "My Glass is Empty" hehe :lol:
[/quote]

[Rev R]

hey will,

"You must first empty your pint to taste my beer."

Keishin,
A drink to honor Ikkyu. Well we could go with my alternate name for a Black and Tan "Not one, not two."

or you could take Jagermeister and Pineapple juice and call it an Ikkyu.

trust me, try one and you will say exactly that.

[will]

Rev R

"You must first empty your pint to taste my beer."

Gotcha. I'll keep drinking.

Gassho

[Gregor]

I have mixed feelings.

I do no abuse alcohol or use other substances. I love a good pub and enjoy a good drink, especially with food. I'll go a few months without having or wanting a drink, this summer I've been putting a few back but with moderation.

But, I have made poor decisions in the past surrounding intoxicating substances, sexual misconduct, ecetera, ecetera. I don't like using the addiction word, because I don't think it's an accurate fit, but who knows? It's a source of embarrassment and regret for me, luckily I escaped any lasting consequences of my actions (so far). I think these days are behind me but I've said that before too. I'm not too worried, just understand that I must be mindful of my old habits and not nurture such seeds.

Ouch. . . . this post is becoming like Zen confession or something. Mia culpa. How many prostrations and Om Mani-s do I owe?

[will]

Sorry man. I teach English not psychiatry.

gregor

I'm not too worried, just understand that I must be mindful of my old habits and not nurture such seeds.

yep. Just be mindful. I don't think drinking should be a part of a beginners practice or until you at least have some mindfulness.

Instead of getting down on yourself, how bout you just pay attention when you drink. Notice the thought ,or the way you go, (I don't know if you go, but I go) "should I have another one? I feel guilty for having another one. I guess I'll have another. Then after many more, your screaming your ex girlfriends name from the top of someone's car in the parking lot. "Maria! I lof youuuu!!!!" then it just gets way out of hand. Your friends (if they're not as drunk as you) try to get you to come off the car and stop screaming. You start to cry (or whimper) mumble something and pass out.

Wooo. I feel like sh@# this morning. What did I do last night? I shouldn't have drank so much. Well why did you drink so much? Just pay attention.

Anyway,

practice dude

Gassho

[Rev R]

Been in all those situations except the crying bit. Never have been much of a cryer.

Thing is though we all make mistakes. Little lapses in judgement here and there that result in minor consequenses (like a hangover or vomiting). It's part of the experience of life. It's what makes us human.

I was once told, "you'll never be perfect and you'll never have all the answers, but it shouldn't stop you from trying."

Rodney

[Gregor]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the support.

Things are just fine, the booze is not a "problem" for me. . . the worst of my attachments lie elsewhere, and they still drive me up the wall at times. The encouraging news is that instead of acting on them I'm learning to let them fizzle out. . . it has a lot to do with noting them then deciding to put our energy into something skillful instead.

[Rev R]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the support.

That's sangha.

[Rev R]

Dude that was fantastic!

Thanks for the laugh.

[louis]

Keishin,

HA! Sounds like fun. I just attended my wife's sister's wedding here in Osaka, bubbly, beer and wine flowed liberally. All things in moderation, and never lift more than you can chew.

[Justin]

Hello all,

Thank you for the teachings here. This is a wonderful thread. I just turned 21 (the legal age for drinking in the States) last month, so I'm still struggling to strike the balance between having a "social drink" and being a "social drunk," if you will. I tend to close my evenings with a glass of wine (or two), but I'm trying to make that my limit as a general rule from now on. Too many nights have started with my nightcap and ended with the bottle mostly empty.

A few weeks back, in the thread on "The Fire of Attention" in Everyday Zen, Paige suggested that someone invent a drink called The Flaming Gassho.

In celebration of my birthday, I did it!



I did not get burned, and it was delicious.

Thank you all again for the discussion here. It's wonderful to see that such a strong support network exists for all of us.

Gassho.[/img]

[Keishin]

drinking as religion

Hello Justin:
Many happy returns of the day, and best of birthday wishes!!

The Flaming Gassho sounds like an interesting drink and from your photo it must be quite astounding visually--perhaps when making it, the person should gassho to their glass before drinking--then you could really 'drink as if your hair were on fire' !!!

Ikkyu thought it would be funny to name a drink 'Bartender, I'll have another' and that way when you ordered it the second time you'd be saying "bartender, I'll have another Bartender I'll Have Another, and you might end up with two of them!!
I told him, not so fast---not two, not even one--most likely the bartender would cut him off--babbling and repeating himself like that....
I told him I thought we should name a drink 'Precepts' Well you should have seen the look on his face--he completely straightened up, but was completely open, flexible--not rigid at all--he said with utmost sincerity, "The glass would have to be bottomless, and you'd never come to the end of that drink" He put his hat on and left, very cheerfully.
I was alone at the bar, but I raised what was left of my drink (the perrier and lime
remember?) and toasted "To Precepts"!

I have to say Rev R's Jagermeister and Pineapple juice sounds like a perfect "ickk-eeww"

reporting from the third barstool on the left

gassho
keishin