Questions to the unsui

[anista]

Questions to the unsui

The best thing to do isn't always the easiest!

Anista wrote:
Although I am not sure where I have stated otherwise, and where my opinions have changed. Please, if you can, point me to where I have stated that there must be a "certian set of views one should poses to have this title [unsui]"

Well it's not that you've mentioned a certain set of views one should have to be unsui but rather another stance you have previously taken. Which then relates to your questions here.
You once questioned how a person could even be a Buddhist if they didn't believe in certian parts like reincarnation etc. So then, with this manner of thinking I figured you must take a similar stance towards those who choose to become unsui and later priests. As in, how can one even choose to travel this path should they not believe in some things or have different views from the entirety of these concepts.

Gassho,
John

Hello John,

Thank you for your response!

Hm ... I am not sure I follow. This thread is about questions to the unsui. I do not feel that the unsui must have certain views, in order to be called unsui. The questions to the unsui are what this thread is about.

As buddhists though, sure, there are certain views that are right and certain views that can be considered wrong. It is basic buddhist thought, really. Hence, "right view". Why have precepts, eightfold path, and so on otherwise. How is this "right" understood, then? Well, simply that this path will lead to certain consequences. If we do not follow this path, other consequences will follow, which will not be beneficial to all sentient beings. It is nothing mystical, it is that simple (although hard to put into practice). Do you mean that it doesn't matter what view you hold, and they will all lead to similar consequences? Is that why you posted what you did? If so, better to start a different thread altogether, don't you think?

John, if I may be frank, you seem to still be carrying resentment to what we discussed earlier (or to me). If you are angry about this, I will be happy to discuss it in a PM or another thread. Here, it is kind of off topic.

If you want to have a go at the questions though, go ahead).

Have a good day!

/anista

[Hoyu]

Re: Questions to the unsui

John wrote:
The best thing to do would be to take off the tap shoes!

Or.......switch to a quieter pair. Which is what I should probably do from here on out :wink:

Gassho,
John

P.S. Anger and resentment are such strong words to bring into this. I have not(in the past), nor do(now), have such feelings towards you at all Anista! Sorry if my questions made you feel like I did _/_

[anista]

Re: Questions to the unsui

No. The title unsui does signify something though (perhaps someone serving the samgha)? As unsui, they are set apart, otherwise all samgha members would be called unsui.

NEVER set apart, not in the least.

If anything ...

It is to volunteer and offer oneself as the lowest ‘sailor on the ship’ at the beck and call of the passengers' well-being and needs, a nurse to help clean soiled linens, a brother or sister to sacrifice oneself for a family, a friend offering to help carry a burden. One must be committed sincerely to serve and benefit others, and one must not undertake such a road for one’s own benefit, praise or reward.

Gassho, J

Of course. I agree. But I meant set apart in title.

/anista

[Hans]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Hello Anista,


excellent questions you posted there. I won't have time to do them justice before the middle of next week though, because of work and other commitments....but rest assured that I will give you a snapshot of my current situation regarding the topics raised.


Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Shohei]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Hi Anista
Good questions, for all really.

Questions:

1. What is your take on rebirth? To simplify in absurdum: only moment-to-moment, or previous lives?

I'll let you know in our next lives. To be honest- I do not know. I do not subscribe to the literal rebirth, and lean more towards moment to moment death and rebirth as you say it.
More to the point the karmic repercussion of our actions now reborn.


2. What does awakening mean? How do you view that concept? How is that view comparable to the wider Mahayana corpus (does it differ or not for example)?



3. Mind-only. Is this a teaching you follow, or not? That is, is it applicable to your practice?

Do not know this reference sorry.

4. How strict are the precepts? Can they be altered to fit different conditions? Can you be part of a trade, for example by selling meat, liquor, guns, and still follow the precepts? Can you drink, kill or abuse, and still follow the precepts? How does this tie into the concept of karma-vipaka?

The precepts are not strict, not the ten commandments as such. Yet we, each individually, need to explore them in our lives, and how they apply to our current existence. Follow them. Do not... Either way you get what you give. I can try like mad to keep them, and still, inadvertently break one (thus all) so .... You renew the vows each moment, when you break them, AT-ONE-MENT (thank you Jundo for this )and move on.

This is not an excuse to continue break or continue breaking them. Middle way is what er follow.

Some folks right here in the sangha whose lives and livelihoods may seem to differ in accordance with the precepts, however they accept, take the vows and do what they can as they can with out attachment, doing what needs to be done the best way they can where many of us falter.

Plenty of stories come around when discussing the precepts highlighting the fluid and encompassing nature of the precepts..they are able to cover the butcher, the solider, the lawyer the veterinarian and over zealous practitioner too. Truth is story or not...these are living precepts and those living this life upholding them can attest to times they felt they did their very best yet had to break on...other times we break them with out knowledge...thats when we look to right intention etc.

5. What is your definition of prajna? Is this concept applicaple to your own practice?

Wisdom. This part of my practice requires attention at the moment. Balance is not sitting in the middle its doing what needs to be done at that moment. For myself, I need to, and currently I am working on prajna.

Sorry there is nothing juicy here to chew on. It really does not matter what I write here as this may change as we go continually go through this change together. The key to all this is to find out for yourself while keeping your eye on the teaching of all those who have gone before us and taking this no-wheres trip with us now!

Gassho
Shohei

[Tb]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Hi.

Answers below...

Questions:

1. What is your take on rebirth? To simplify in absurdum: only moment-to-moment, or previous lives?

Don't know, and it doesn't really concern me in my daily life activities, i just do as best i can.

2. What does awakening mean? How do you view that concept? How is that view comparable to the wider Mahayana corpus (does it differ or not for example)?

Awakening or enlightenment are good ananlogies, one is like drudgingly waking up from sleep in the morning the other like flicking on the light in a pitchblack room, both are usable analogies when talking about an realizingmoment, and it sometimes differ sometimes not, although it is all the same...

3. Mind-only. Is this a teaching you follow, or not? That is, is it applicable to your practice?

Yes, and no. It is an good way to view how things are, ie mapping of things, three natures eight consciousnesses, emptiness and such, but in the end it's up to me to get through the day.

4. How strict are the precepts? Can they be altered to fit different conditions? Can you be part of a trade, for example by selling meat, liquor, guns, and still follow the precepts? Can you drink, kill or abuse, and still follow the precepts? How does this tie into the concept of karma-vipaka?

The precepts are not commandments, and they're up to intention and Upaya (skillful means), if they are "broken" or not. And there are several stories, i believe, attributed to the Buddha, and later ones, where people do those and not end up "breaking them", and not getting an "bad" result of the action (karma vipaka).

5. What is your definition of prajna? Is this concept applicaple to your own practice?

Wisdom or understanding of things, or rather the understanding and wisdom of things and how to use that well. Yes, it's applicable.


Thank you for you practice and the questions.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Questions to the unsui

OK, I’ll give this a go….


Questions:

1. What is your take on rebirth? To simplify in absurdum: only moment-to-moment, or previous lives?

Answer: Yes. I mean this in that I believe we are reborn moment by moment and can choose to take advantage of that rebirth by being of benefit to all beings and be fully “In” the moment – grocking the moment some might say – and thereby remove ourselves from the prison of karma. As to the other, well, I can’t discount that we are reborn in a life and body like the one we are in now – just as I can’t discount that when I die, I disappear into a puff of smoke. Indeed, what would that knowledge do for me, or how would it help me to be of benefit to those sentient beings in need?

2. What does awakening mean? How do you view that concept? How is that view comparable to the wider Mahayana corpus (does it differ or not for example)?
Answer: See the Genjokoan for my viewpoint on that. As to how my view jives with Mahayana sutra, Hiniyana or Theravada sutta, or anything else…I try not to discriminate too much here. Rather, I simply try to ‘be’ with the everyday and let others make the distinction on which sect that most closely ties to. That being said, at the same time, I most heartfeltly identify with Soto Zen and the teachings of Dogen’s line.

3. Mind-only. Is this a teaching you follow, or not? That is, is it applicable to your practice?

Answer: Yes it is, in as much as I follow any specific teaching or doctrine when it just fits with my understanding of the Way as it naturally progresses through the practice of shikantaza and my reading of the teachings of the great masters of many lineages. As I see our Way, it is a pathless path to shedding layer upon layer of misconception and delusion to reach a clear view of “suchness”. In that light, all things are my teacher, and I follow a Way of All Ways and No Ways, with a flavor specific to Soto Zen.

4. How strict are the precepts? Can they be altered to fit different conditions? Can you be part of a trade, for example by selling meat, liquor, guns, and still follow the precepts? Can you drink, kill or abuse, and still follow the precepts? How does this tie into the concept of karma-vipaka?

Answer: As strict as they need to be. A man who kills a deer so that his family does not starve to death, does not in my mind violate the precepts. When a person does something with ill intent, specifically against the precepts, especially in situations where an alternative is present that is in keeping with the precepts; that is a violation. We all know the heart of the precepts, and to break that heart willingly is to violate our vows.

5. What is your definition of prajna? Is this concept applicable to your own practice?

Answer: Prajna. To me it is wisdom, the type of wisdom gained (by degrees usually) through practice and determination to see through the veil of delusion in this saha world. Prajna to me is the gradual progression to that place of “suchness” where the clarity of things is made apparent, and we can act, feel, and think from that clear blue sky without having to be slaves to our preconceived notions, delusions, or attachments. Prajna is the heart of our practice; and we realize it by bringing it forth in our daily lives, as best we can.

[Risho]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Maybe this is better asked in a different thread, but what does it mean that we die from one moment and are reborn the next? Is that just another way to posit the idea of change, i.e. We are different from what we were so in that sense we died? Language can get tricky and it's easy to get lost in metaphor.

[Jundo]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Maybe this is better asked in a different thread, but what does it mean that we die from one moment and are reborn the next? Is that just another way to posit the idea of change, i.e. We are different from what we were so in that sense we died? Language can get tricky and it's easy to get lost in metaphor.

I would say that is right. You are not the same "Risho" who was around at age 7, or age 17 ... let alone 1 hour ago and 1 breath ago. While the mind gives some sense of continuity by remembering images of the past ... from another perspective all things are constantly changing. and a "Risho" dies and a "Risho" is born in every moment. Thus, an aspect of our Zen Practice is to "go with the flow" as things constantly change.

Remember that, in its most radical perspectives, one can really run with this and see that "Risho" is just a kind of movie, an illusion, whereby Risho thinks there is a "Risho". In fact, the sequence of birth and death is so constant and ongoing that, in fact, it arose long before Risho thinks he was born as a baby ... will continue onward long after Risho thinks he dies as a man. What is more, "Risho" thinks himself a separate self independent of the rest of the people and stuff of the world ... but that is not the only way to see things.

It is much as waves rise and fall endlessly on the sea. One wave rises for a time (a self-aware wave named "Risho"), but in fact that wave is constantly changing as it moves across the surface of the sea (in a sense, becoming new every second and inch as it moves along). It came from forces long before its arising, and its effects will continue on long after it fades back into the sea ... its effects moving on ... perhaps re-arising in other waves down the line. Even though the Risho wave thinks it dies and disappears at some time in the future ... the sea goes on and on. The "Risho" wave thinks itself separate somehow from the sea ... but it is just the swirling, living sea itself all along.

Thus, we say that "life and death" are happening in every moment ... and also "life and death" are something of a dream.

Something like that.

Gassho, J

[Shogen]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Anista
Would you be so kind as to offer your accepted definition of unsui? The meaning is varied and could be misunderstood.
Gassho Shogen

[Taigu]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Excellent words of my brother Jundo.

Actually, Anista, I have an issue with the way the questions are put...i hope you don't mind if i put it down this way:
Your questions are very sharp, as sharp as Monju's sword. Lots of Prjana here.Great stuff. And, at the same time, are they taking an exam? Does it have answered now and in words? You know that answers change and vary in the course of a lifetime. You also know that the ultimate answer is not doctrinal but real. Manisfested just now. Words or no words. Whatever.

Now I am going to bring a shift of pespective, a kind of different take to the all process:
Rather than asking them to provide answers, why not looking at life as it is , their lifes as answers seeking for their questions.

You see, that's it. The way I measure the depth of a student is looking at his questions and where they spring-leap from.

A complete different way of looking at it.

This is Zen, no scholar work.

gassho


Taigu

[Risho]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Thank you Jundo sensei. These are big questions and my ego took them as a personal challenge even though they weren't addressed to me because deep down I want to be validated on some level although it angers me to admit that. Lol.

But your and Taigu sensei's answers remind me to just continue practicing. Instead of rushing to grasp for an answer right this instant this practice does not end. On one hand these questions are useful but in the end the practice is life and death itself, not words in a book or on a monitor.

Thank you Jundo sensei and Taigu sensei

// although I still want to know it all now. Lol

Gassho

Risho

[anista]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Anista
Would you be so kind as to offer your accepted definition of unsui? The meaning is varied and could be misunderstood.
Gassho Shogen

Hello Shogen,

I do not know what you mean by "accepted definition of unsui"? Jundo and Taigu are the ones who choose the unsui. They have given the definition. I guess the question would be better addressed to them.

/anista

[anista]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Actually, Anista, I have an issue with the way the questions are put...

Who is the one having the issue?

With respect,

/anista

[Shogen]

Re: Questions to the unsui

Anista
Would you be so kind as to offer your accepted definition of unsui? The meaning is varied and could be misunderstood.
Gassho Shogen

Hello Shogen,

I do not know what you mean by "accepted definition of unsui"? Jundo and Taigu are the ones who choose the unsui. They have given the definition. I guess the question would be better addressed to them.

/anista

Anista

Thanks for your reply it answers my question. Gassho Shogen