Not this, Not that Neti Neti

[Sleeps]

Ok, I've decided that this topic seems related to a right understanding of buddhism and not idle rambling. My understanding of something I often see in zen is "it's not this...not that either...but "this". This mental imputation is substance-less, as is that one...it's this? I live life according to whatever model I have trying to be thoughtful enough to remember that it is incomplete, the world changes, everything constantly changes, therefore worldview is a dynamic process and even "static" views, although needed to get by life, I try to be mindful of the fact that they aren't the end all. "Delusions are endless, I vow to extinguish them all" This constant process of openness WHILE acting on "known" things, would that be the "this" of the not this, nor that?

Cheers,
Greg

[chicanobudista]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

You already emptied the tea cup?

[Sleeps]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

if I said I did, it would be this, If I said I didn't it would be that. It's a bottomless well, all that can be done is recognition of false solidity, delusion. I is a dynamic process, but not really..
:P

[Risho]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

It can be difficult to talk in metaphor because the rabbit hole gets deeper amd deeper. What is "not this"? What else is there? I guess when learning something we follow a model like in programming. We learn by example but life is dynamic. When something is ingrained then there is no more need for a model. But again this is just theoretical talk so what do I kow? Lol

I mean when the s hits the fan what matters? How do we face life then or now? Why add filters and models? Zen is about experiencing directly dropping our bs baggage but I fail a lot. I'm not saying that to be humble, i mean it. Practice is tough. It shows me again and again where I grasp for comfort, etc. Now i'm rambling

[Sleeps]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

It can be difficult to talk in metaphor because the rabbit hole gets deeper amd deeper. What is "not this"? What else is there? I guess when learning something we follow a model like in programming. We learn by example but life is dynamic. When something is ingrained then there is no more need for a model. But again this is just theoretical talk so what do I kow? Lol

I mean when the s hits the fan what matters? How do we face life then or now? Why add filters and models? Zen is about experiencing directly dropping our bs baggage but I fail a lot. I'm not saying that to be humble, i mean it. Practice is tough. It shows me again and again where I grasp for comfort, etc. Now i'm rambling

Well, If I understand correctly, "not this" is a recognition of a arbitrary construct that doesn't have a intrinsic depth to it. For example, my idea of a clock could be a grandfather clock that I compare all other clocks to, yours could be a alarm clock. If we were delusional enough about what a clock "really is", we could theoretically have a looong arguement about clocks. in the words of The Dude, that's like, your opinion, man. and that's all it is, just your opinion, just your construct, not wrong or right, just what you see.

a mini disaster happened to me in the last week, my card changed banks and the card was turned off. the thought of, "oh crap, I'm in trouble" still very much there. but when it started running doomsday scenarios my reaction to them was all "...yeah, mmkai, prove it, that's nice..". Knowing that a clock is just a clock, my card situation is just what it is right now with no garanteed threat of not having direct deposit transfer properly to the new account makes quite a bit of difference.

[Risho]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

The dude abudes

[chicanobudista]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

A head on top of another head on top of another head....

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

[Sleeps]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

A head on top of another head on top of another head....

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

What do you mean?

Cheers,
Greg

[Jundo]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

A head on top of another head on top of another head....

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

What do you mean?

Cheers,
Greg

You are still over thinking and analyzing "not this" and "not that" ... and the result is not this nor that at all.

Sit ... drop this and that amid this and that of life ... and that's that and what's what.

The mind, set free, is this wondrous breeze that blows unhindered through this that and the other thing ... while as light as no thing at all.

(In Tokyo today to visit the Chinese Embassy for the visas for our China trip to retrieve our daughter in December. Now, THAT's something!)

Gassho, J

[Myoku]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

I think ... you think.

The thinking mind is not able to grasp the truth. I used to be a thinker, I have (or had, who knows) a brilliant IQ, but
this not helps much in Zen, in fact thinking can get you pretty good astray. My mind has the ability to come up with
many interesting questions, interesting to my mind. But what if we need no answer ? One can pretty much find an
answer to every question, but what does that make ? Probably new questions (blessed are those with children, you
see that everyday). My practice is just sitting, and this is not meant to make me dull or blind. In fact I experience
that its quite the opposite.

There is no shortcut; I sat for years with questions, and - guess what - still I have questions, but I dont pay
much attention to them most of the time, the mind is so good in finding things to think about.

_()_
Peter

[chicanobudista]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

What do you mean?

Cheers,
Greg

I should add that as someone with a background in Political Science and having friends who are faculty who teach Philosophy at colleges, I love a good discussion and those ultimate quandaries ("Can G-d create a stone so heavy even s/he could not lift?" :mrgreen: ). But one we thing we are mindful is:

[youtube]

[/youtube]

:mrgreen: :wink:

[Sleeps]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

What do you mean?

Cheers,
Greg

I should add that as someone with a background in Political Science and having friends who are faculty who teach Philosophy at colleges, I love a good discussion and those ultimate quandaries ("Can G-d create a stone so heavy even s/he could not lift?" :mrgreen: ). But one we thing we are mindful is:

[youtube]

[/youtube]

:mrgreen: :wink:

Well that's why I'm here. :3 I really had no idea how much that is written is related simply to sitting. Anything else I ever did required cross referencing, lots of thought, etc, etc, I'll just leave it at that, already tempted to pull threads...

[Amelia]

Re: Not this, Not that Neti Neti

(Off-topic)

I am so glad to hear the exciting news, Jundo!

Gassho,

Amelia