Nihilism

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  • Sleeps
    Member
    • Oct 2011
    • 99

    Nihilism

    Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

    Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?
    Burning Coal
  • Taigu
    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
    • Aug 2008
    • 2710

    #2
    Re: Nihilism

    Woul you like a cup of tea?


    Gassho


    T.

    Comment

    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40270

      #3
      Re: Nihilism

      Yes, empty that teacup!

      Rather than overly philosophizing and analyzing "nihilism" or "materialism" or "emptiness" etc ... experience this, live this, dance this!

      Otherwise it is a bit like philosophizing on the relationship of water and wetness and waves to the ocean ... rather than just sailing or swimming as the sea. Too many thoughts and too much analysis can sometimes help, but often just muddies the waters. Perhaps your detailed analysis here is more the latter case?

      Gassho, J
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

      Comment

      • Sleeps
        Member
        • Oct 2011
        • 99

        #4
        Re: Nihilism

        dang..it went there.. xD

        noted, moving right along...

        Cheers,
        Greg
        Burning Coal

        Comment

        • Yugen

          #5
          Re: Nihilism

          Greg,
          Read Nishitani Keiji's book Religion and Nothingness - it is the culmination of the Kyoto school's dance with 19th century European existentialist and nihilist philosophers and attempt to reconcile their work with Buddhist philopsophy.

          I am not a teacher so I feel free to suggest irresponsible intellectual activities that tie one's mind up in knots and endless internal dialogue - I then hit the cushion to untie them!! :wink: Or I should say I create the flow of mind chatter that I then "observe" during zazen! (Sorry J and T - just being playful)

          gassho,
          Yugen

          Comment

          • Sleeps
            Member
            • Oct 2011
            • 99

            #6
            Re: Nihilism

            Yugen,

            You make a good point, plenty of storyline to watch already...It's so tempting to add fuel to the fire.
            Burning Coal

            Comment

            • Sleeps
              Member
              • Oct 2011
              • 99

              #7
              Re: Nihilism

              and yes Jundo, I did want to talk about such "relationships" in hopes that chasing down this thought would "help". Neurosis is a habbit.. xD
              Burning Coal

              Comment

              • Sleeps
                Member
                • Oct 2011
                • 99

                #8
                Re: Nihilism

                Originally posted by Jundo
                Yes, empty that teacup!

                Rather than overly philosophizing and analyzing "nihilism" or "materialism" or "emptiness" etc ... experience this, live this, dance this!

                Otherwise it is a bit like philosophizing on the relationship of water and wetness and waves to the ocean ... rather than just sailing or swimming as the sea. Too many thoughts and too much analysis can sometimes help, but often just muddies the waters. Perhaps your detailed analysis here is more the latter case?

                Gassho, J
                ..act on it?

                Cheers,
                Greg
                Burning Coal

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40270

                  #9
                  Re: Nihilism

                  Originally posted by Sleeps

                  ..act on it?

                  Cheers,
                  Greg
                  Sit for now, philosophize little ... study in small doses. Put Zazen into Practice!

                  Otherwise, it is like a fellow who comes to swimming school and, instead of getting in the water and learning the strokes, spends too much time debating the wetness of water, reading books on the science of flotation, pondering the philosophy of swimming or whether swimmers should eat meat.

                  There is a time for that, and a little philosophizing is fine, but mostly "dive into the cushion", listen carefully what the swimming instructors and experienced fellow swimmers are saying about swimming laps 'to the other side' 8) of the pool. Have ears open, mind open ... but mouth mostly closed, lest water get in and one chokes. 8) In doing so, many of one's questions on the wetness of water etc. will be resolved.

                  Gassho, Jundo
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Sleeps
                    Member
                    • Oct 2011
                    • 99

                    #10
                    Re: Nihilism

                    alright then.

                    Cheers,
                    Greg
                    Burning Coal

                    Comment

                    • disastermouse

                      #11
                      Re: Nihilism

                      Originally posted by Sleeps
                      Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

                      Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?
                      Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way.

                      But like Taigu said, have some tea. You can't think your way into awakening - but what's under the thinking? Taste the tea, don't describe it.

                      Comment

                      • Sleeps
                        Member
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 99

                        #12
                        Re: Nihilism

                        Originally posted by disastermouse
                        Originally posted by Sleeps
                        Wouldn't the "idea" of nihilism, of a nothingness, be also a full "part" of the totality of becoming interdependent arising? I say "part" lightly since language is generally used to imply reifcated ideas are a absolute construct. No conclusive point of a thereness or non-thereness of anything can be made since there is no conclusive point that can be made of the selfness of anything, a person-self, a rose-self, or in this case, a nihilism-self. Nihilists "or" Materialists are fully "part" of a "true self". Form is emptiness, "nihilistic view on existence is emptiness". "materialistic view on existence is emptiness", both statements would be "true" due to no ultimate dualistic barriers that separate "them" in a borderless interdependent arising.

                        Even holding the reification of a idea, the rigid belief of a conceptual essence is emptiness, no?
                        Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way.

                        But like Taigu said, have some tea. You can't think your way into awakening - but what's under the thinking? Taste the tea, don't describe it.
                        Cheers on that sir, "Most 'wrong views' are wrong because of their incompleteness. That is - they're true as far as they go but they don't go all the way." that's the wedge that keeps my cynicism from fully hitting the tarmac.

                        Regards,
                        Greg
                        Burning Coal

                        Comment

                        • ChrisA
                          Member
                          • Jun 2011
                          • 312

                          #13
                          Re: Nihilism

                          Sleeps, what do you take "emptiness" to mean?
                          Chris Seishi Amirault
                          (ZenPedestrian)

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