Purpose of Mantras

[Jundo]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

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It seems to me that reciting mantras might actually be counter-productive to shikantaza.

I can feel what Chuck describes. Dharanis and Mantras are not my personal Practice, and I feel that they smack of mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus and abracadbra at heart. However, I see no reason that they should interfere with Shikantaza, because nothing can possibly "interfere" with Shikantaza. Shikantaza takes on all comers!

After all, we breathe from morning till night till morning again (until our last breath anyway). That does not "interfere" with Shikantaza, for it is just life ... and nothing in life is pushed out of Shikantaza. I give breathing usually not a thought. So, why should chanting morning till night till morning be any otherwise?

Gassho, J

[Ekai]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

Years ago I used to chant Om Mani Padme Hum and I loved it. This chant inspired me to open my heart and strengthened my intent to cultivate deeper compassion for myself and other sentient beings. Om Mani Padme Hum planted the compassion seed in my mind and body and by repeating it over and over again the seed was watered to grow my capacity to feel and give love. I believe it was my connection to meaning of the chant and my motivation to create more lovingkindness awareness that was transformative, not anything esoteric or something that come from "out there". If one chants Om Mani Padme Hum or any other chant mindlessly without any true meaning or intent behind it, then it's just mindless chanting. It comes from deep within the heart and the felt-sense connection to your practice. And that's where the magic comes in.

Now I just sit Shikantaza which is great, but Om Mani Padme Hum will always have a special place in my heart.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Jinyo]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

Ekai wrote

'Years ago I used to chant Om Mani Padme Hum and I loved it. This chant inspired me to open my heart and strengthened my intent to cultivate deeper compassion for myself and other sentient beings. Om Mani Padme Hum planted the compassion seed in my mind and body and by repeating it over and over again the seed was watered to grow my capacity to feel and give love. I believe it was my connection to meaning of the chant and my motivation to create more lovingkindness awareness that was transformative, not anything esoteric or something that come from "out there". If one chants Om Mani Padme Hum or any other chant mindlessly without any true meaning or intent behind it, then it's just mindless chanting. It comes from deep within the heart and the felt-sense connection to your practice. And that's where the magic comes in.'

I can really relate to that - and beautifully expressed.

Chanting Namo Amida Butsu opened a doorway for me before I understood anything about different buddhist practices. I don't chant during sitting but during the day
I might focus on the meaning of a particular chant as a reflective practice. And sometimes it can be calming just to chant and draw some inner strength from it.

Gassho

Willow

[Jundo]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

I can feel what Chuck describes. Chanting and Mantras are not my personal Practice, and I feel that they smack of mumbo jumbo, hocus pocus and abracadbra at heart.

Gassho, J

I should have written "Dharani and Mantras" above, not "Chanting and Mantras". Chanting is my practice most days in some way, although I like to chant words that actually has a teaching in there ... like the Verse of the Kesa or Heart Sutra on Emptiness. After I have studied the words however ... I see through the words, put the words down, and just chant the sounds ... all arising in Emptiness and as One.

Of course, Mantras ... like classical music ... can have a profound meaning often beyond words that is spoken to the heart, I have no doubt. That is fine. All sounds arise from and return to Silence! The truly can resonate with the heart and outward into space.

Heck, if you want to chant "Hail to the Lotus" or "God is Great" or an Aria from 'La Boheme' or hum "Coke is the Real Thing" ... and it touches one ... have at it! (Chanting "Heil Hitler", "God is Great" on a suicide mission, or the like is a problem, however, because of the anger, violence and division involved).

My real objection is to those Dharani and Mantras used quite clearly as abracadabra magic spells and incantations to get some material benefit such as a new job or new car or love or even medical recovery. I believe that, for most people, that is the way they have been primarily thought of and used through the centuries. Often the ways in which we chant "to get stuff" can be much more hidden and subtle, and we should be cautious.

Gassho, J

[murasaki]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

My real objection is to those Dharani and Mantras used quite clearly as abracadabra magic spells and incantations to get some material benefit such as a new job or new car or love or even medical recovery. I believe that, for most people, that is the way they have been primarily thought of and used through the centuries. Often the ways in which we chant "to get stuff" can be much more hidden and subtle, and we should be cautious.

This is the bottom line, know what you're getting at in, well, anything you do. Some crazy mind-theatre can be exposed when you take an honest look sometimes (not that I've ever found any of that in my introspection ops: :P ).

"Getting stuff" doesn't have to be material; the medical recovery doesn't look like "stuff", and it can often times be for someone other than yourself, but you're still asking someone to intervene for you outside of your own circle of influence, which is not productive or applicable in this practice. I similarly mentioned something in my initial post about wanting good grades, same sort of thing. I don't like magic formulas to "get stuff", but that doesn't mean I can't fool myself into it.

I like discussing this issue, not to create controversy or nitpick about something minor (I hate both activities), but it causes me to clarify my motives to myself.

I am not comfortable as it is with inflexible and lengthy rituals; if I have time to chant (or a voice to do it) I chant, if not, nothing to add or take away. I should probably have been more clear in saying that I mostly took things we say in English and found Sino-Japanese versions (the Four Vows, for example). Added the Kannon Sutra and that one Dharani. Where was I at when I did this? I really just wanted more chanting for chanting's sake, but I will explore that and hopefully not develop too strong an attachment. It's hard to not want to do that because of my orientation toward human speech, verbalisation, the articulatory tract.

Maybe I am looking for excuses to do that without the karmic cost of my usual blathering? That's been really coming to light for me lately. I am feeling the effects of a long time of speaking without mindfulness. I think I'm trying to find opportunities to say something "safe", even "positive", without sounding like I am being a people-pleaser. It's difficult to do that when most of the time I am used to being witty, sarcastic, snarky, something to say about everything, a last-word kind of a person. Using my words to convey the depths and details of my anger without first coping with it inwardly and editing it more appropriately. I want to get rid of some of that. Repaying karmic debt at the point where it has cost me the most -- the vocal tract. Then when I'm about to say something snarky, I remember that the same tongue dignified itself with a sutra earlier...probably not a good idea to throw that effort (and positive karma) away and stoop back down to shrew level.

It's a kind of a personal journey but thank you for helping me think it over aloud here.

gassho
julia

[Kyonin]

Re: Purpose of Mantras

IMHO Mantras help you focus your mind on single task or idea at a time.

I use mantras on my daily practice like the Heart Sutra and meal gatha. I even have created my own to inspire myself to never forget going out and run instead of staying home doing nothing.