Saving all beings?

[Don Niederfrank]

Will,
Absolutely.
What I write here has too much ego attached.
This is etch-a-sketch not stone.
Frisbee tossing w/words.

[Urug]

Re: saving all beings

Four Great Vows again! This translation comes from the website for the Sitting Frog Sangha:

Beings are numberless; I vow to save them all.
Obstacles are countless; I vow to overcome them all.
Dharma gates are limitless; I vow to enter them all.
The Buddha Way is endless; I vow to follow it.

Beloved others,

Reading these words this morning, it seems to me that these could be taken as koans in addition to actual attainable vows.

If beings are numberless how do I save them all?

If obstacles are countless, how do I overcome them all?

If dharma gates are limitless, how do I enter them all?

If the Buddha Way is endless, how do I follow it?


They seem to pose a riddle that appears unsolvable.

Yet deep inside me, it feels like there is a way to "solve" the riddle and attain the vows.

Wei Wu Wei said:

"There seem to two kinds of searchers: those who seek to make their ego something other than it is, i.e. holy, happy, unselfish (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just gesticulation and play-acting, that there is only one thing that can be done, which is to disidentify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality, and by becoming aware of their eternal identity with pure being."

Doing this it seems could be the answer to the koan of the four vows.

Namaste...Peace...Love...Gassho...

Urug 8)


PS I know I just posted this same quote in another thread. I must be dealing with this issue on some level that it keeps coming into my mind. I will go sit with this.

[Martin]

Thank you Urug

I like the idea of the vows as koans very much.

Gassho

Martin

[Jundo]

Re: saving all beings

Hi,

I would add one perspective here ...

Wei Wu Wei said:

"There seem to two kinds of searchers: those who seek to make their ego something other than it is, i.e. holy, happy, unselfish (as though you could make a fish unfish), and those who understand that all such attempts are just gesticulation and play-acting, that there is only one thing that can be done, which is to disidentify themselves with the ego, by realizing its unreality, and by becoming aware of their eternal identity with pure being."

The second road ("eternal identity with pure being") can be viewed a couple of ways, and I do not think that Wei Wu Wei (aka Terence Gray) makes that very clear (at least in this short selection of his wonderful writings). Our Practice might be seen as that of a stinky fish, who realizes it is not a stinky fish, while realizing it is a stinky fish again. It now experiences its own stink and fishiness in a completely new way, a way beyond stink/no stink or fish/no fish, although the fishiness and fishy smell remain inherent in being a fish.

An "eternal identity with pure being" could be seen by some people as a fish escaping its stink and fishiness, which is about the same as our trying to be holy or 'always joyful' or 'perfect beings' or any other unrealistic, idealistic target.

There may be different kinds of enlightenment, attained by different types of mystics seeking different things. However, the only one I am interested in, and the most wonderful I think, is the one that allows me to be home in being me (with one aspect of that as the realization that there is no 'me').

Our Zen practice teaches us some things about 'just swimming,' about being fish 'at one with the ocean', about being less angry and destructive fish ... but we never escape from our own scales (at least in this life, before some bigger fish eats us).

So, I encourage folks not to hold realization up to too high a standard, with too high expectations ... cause you will miss the part about living as a perfectly imperfect human being, in a perfectly imperfect world, even after the 'realization'. You will be a fish who dreams of being a bird or the like.

This subject connects with several threads of discussion on the Forum, so I am going to try to continue this same theme there too: In an nutshell, "be diligent, be careful ... also know that you will not always be diligent and careful ... also know that there is no need to be diligent and careful."

So, for example, Jundo's version of the 'Four Vows" might go something like this ... with all parts true at once (More like the '4 Vows, with many wise provisos'):

Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them.
But many sentient beings are quite unsavable or have no wish of my butting in. That's just the fact and/or their right.
And anyway, I'll sometimes break my vows because I am human. That's okay.
As well, ultimately there are no sentient beings, nothing in need of saving, no 'I' to make a vow. Thus, the job is already done!
But, anyway, I will do my best to help those who want to be helped, the problems of the world that can be helped, no matter the foregoing.

Delusions are inexhaustable, I vow to cut through them.
Some delusions are part of being human, I require them and vow to keep them (because this life is like a good movie ... I want to watch it until the end, and get sucked into the story, even if just a silly movie).
Part of it is just to stop thinking of some things as 'delusions' (the ones not too harmful), whereupon those 'delusions' disappear as 'delusions'. Of course, some 'delusions' are really harmful 'delusions', and can be done without.
And the universe is beyond delusion/enlightenment ...so the job is already done!
But, anyway, I will do my best to keep up my Practice, and thus to realize other ways of perceiving this life.

Reality is boundless, I vow to perceive it.
Of course, I cannot perceive very much of it, given the size of the cosmos and my little corner of it, and my slightly-smarter-than-an-ant-like intelligence.
Then again, in perceiving just this grain of sand, all of Reality is perceived. So, the job is done ... that way at least!
But, so much I can perceive of Reality through my Buddhist Practice, things otherwise to which I was blind. So, I will keep Practicing.

The Buddha Way is unsurpassable, I vow to attain it.
I wonder how much the 'Buddha' actually lived 'the Buddha Way'? I bet we would find him quite human if we actually met the guy.
Anyway, I want to live 'my way', and ultimately, every way is the Buddha Way (at least if no harm to self and others results).
Non attaining is the attaining. Thus, the job is already done!
But I will keep seeking to live by the Precepts and all the rest.

Consider the above a first draft, done at 1am. Also, not so easy to chant. You wonder why the tax code looks the way it does, after the lawyers got through with all the provisos?

Gassho, Jundo

PS - I thought the version of the vows by Ven Steve Hagen had something of the sisyphian flavor I was looking for ...


To save all sentient beings, though they are numberless
To end all desiring, though desires are endless (or inexhaustible)
To learn the Dharma, though the Dharma is boundless
To realize the Buddha Way, though it is unattainable

[Dainin]

Keishin,

I am glad you started a new thread with the various translations.

You asked,
"By the way, Keith, do you remember where you found the translations for Verse of the Kesa and the Four Great Vows you started this forum off with?
It would be nice to know the source if you have it..."

Re: the translation of the Verse of the Kesa with which I began this thread, I actually received from Jundo when I took the Precepts with him about a year and a half ago. Not sure from where he received it.

Some others variations:

“Vast is the robe of liberation
A formless field of happiness (line from "Moon in a Dewdrop", I think)
I wear the universal teaching (line from Joko Beck)
Harmonizing all sentient beings” (line from somewhere on the Net)

From Nishijima Roshi & Chodo Cross:
"How great is the clothing of liberation,
Formless, field of happiness, robe!
Devoutly wearing the Tathaagata's teaching,
Widely I will save living beings."

The version of 4 Great Vows that I wrote is the one used in the Kwan Um School of Zen.

Gassho,
Keith

[Dainin]

Hi Jundo,

I love your version of the 4 Great Vows. Yes, they'd be difficult to chant!

You wrote:
"PS - I thought the version of the vows by Ven Steve Hagen had something of the Sisyphean flavor I was looking for ...

To save all sentient beings, though they are numberless
To end all desiring, though desires are endless (or inexhaustible)
To learn the Dharma, though the Dharma is boundless
To realize the Buddha Way, though it is unattainable"

I second that notion. Steve Hagen's version does have a sense of: "this may be impossible, but it's damned worth trying (as you said, Sisyphean).

Gassho,
Keith

[Rakurei]

Hi all,

As I prepare for Jukai, I've been establishing a bit more of a formal home practice - and with the lines of "saving all beings" continually coming up in chants, I found this old thread to reflect on. Just wanted to bump it. A great dialogue between Jundo and some others here.

I also want to include Roshi Joan Halifax of Upaya's take on the first vow. She uses "creations" rather than beings, which includes concepts and labels - as well as "freeing" rather than saving. A fun reflection.



“Creations are numberless. I vow to free them.” What are creations? They are every thought, every feeling, every idea, every habit. They are beautiful. They are terrible. They are our bodies. They are this very world. How do we free them? On one level, we give them lots of space. We don’t cling to the creations of our mind…including the creation of “not clinging”. We allow all
creations to be…including suffering. Can you liberate the homeless person who asks you for spare change from the idea of being a beggar? Can you liberate the murderer on Death Row from the label of “criminal”? Can you really let YOU be the unique, imperfect and interconnected you?"

Gassho,

ST

Tyler

[aprapti]

This pdf-file contains a lot of versions of the 4 vows of different zen-schools and a word by word translation of the Japanese kanji :

https://villagezendo.org/wp-content/pdfs/FourVowsVZ-ZCLA.pdf

Coos
std

[Seishin]

This pdf-file contains a lot of versions of the 4 vows of different zen-schools and a word by word translation of the Japanese kanji :

https://villagezendo.org/wp-content/pdfs/FourVowsVZ-ZCLA.pdf

Coos
std

Thanks for sharing Coos - all different and all the same. Simples.

SZIZTM la