The Zen Mind

[Seishin the Elder]

I was just sent this link and spent a wonderful 56 minutes watching a beautiful documentary about Zen. There is a piece at the beginning with Gudo Nishijima, although I do not know how long ago it was made. At the time he said he was going to be 85. I do not know if this has been noted here before, please forgive if it has.


http://documentarystorm.com/the-zen-mind/


Gassho,

Seisjin Kyrill

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: The Zen Mind

Hi Kyrillos,
Thanks for that. Have only seen snippets of this on YouTube before. I will have a look.
Gassho,
Soen

[Seiryu]

Re: The Zen Mind

Thank you very much!!

I am watching this now! Very interesting!


Gassho

Seiryu

[Amelia]

Re: The Zen Mind

I have watched this several times. I love it, and I hope you all love it, too. Thanks for sharing it, Kyrillos. I used to have it saved on YouTube, but it was taken down. Now I know where to find it again!

Gassho,

Amelia

[Jundo]

Re: The Zen Mind

I was just sent this link and spent a wonderful 56 minutes watching a beautiful documentary about Zen. There is a piece at the beginning with Gudo Nishishima, although I do not know how long ago it was made. At the time he said he was going to be 85. I do not know if this has been noted here before, please forgive if it has.


http://documentarystorm.com/the-zen-mind/


Gassho,

Seisjin Kyrill

Hi Fr. K.

Thank you for the link.

The documentary is a bit romanticized, of course. Very very few Japanese, businessmen or otherwise, practice Zazen. Most Japanese do not live in houses like that, do not have a particular respect for nature (quite the contrary ... one only has to see the trash dumped on Mt. Fuji), or cherish simplicity (as a recent other thread discussed) ...

viewtopic.php?p=55449#p55449

Also, some of the descriptions of Shikantaza (such as a "state ... in which no habitual thoughts rise up") are a misunderstanding. (Noda Roshi, an acquaintance of mine from Sojiji, even says so later in the video, when he states that Zazen is not about "mushin" or "no thought")


Gassho, J

[Taigu]

Re: The Zen Mind

Jundo brings everything into perspective. Living here has nothing Zen to it. Japan is a very modern country and most Japanese are stuck into the kawai ( cute) and oishi(delicious) culture. Fashion an food are running the show and television gives you a good idea of what it is all about. Of course, there are exceptions.

I am not in Japan for Zen but for this je ne sais quoi.

And many comments are here misleading.

Nevertheless, if yo an give it a go, you are bound to not regret it (although some people can never ever appreciate Japan).

gassho


Taigu

[Hoyu]

Re: The Zen Mind

Hi All,

Finally had the time to watch this today! Though slightly romanticized as Jundo Sensei says he makes some very good observations to point out the truth of the matter. Which was a nice addition. I really enjoyed it and even learned a few nifty tidbits.

One thing that I would like to hear a little more on is the Kyosaku. At least in terms of it being used to hit an exact pressure point used in accupuncture. Is this correct and if so what is the pressure point which is struck supposed to do to the body? It was really interesting, and infact would be pretty cool if it were so, but I'm just not sure if I buy this one :?:

Gassho,
John

[Shokai]

Re: The Zen Mind

John;
Haven't watch the doc yet but will have to think about the pressure point. I've been Kyosaku-ed more than a few times but I'm still the same old dude.

[Onken]

Re: The Zen Mind

One thing that I would like to hear a little more on is the Kyosaku. At least in terms of it being used to hit an exact pressure point used in accupuncture. Is this correct and if so what is the pressure point which is struck supposed to do to the body? It was really interesting, and infact would be pretty cool if it were so, but I'm just not sure if I buy this one

I found this interesting too, albeit somewhat IMHO....not based on real fact. However, "pressure points" on the body do correspond to nerves running along the body, as well as origins and insertions of muscle. A martial art that I practice and teach is based on traditional Japanese jujutsu, accupuncture and Shiatsu I don't buy the whole hitting a point to make someone energized or tired or whatever, but it does have some effect. I think its more physiological than energy lines running around the body. Just my 2 cents.

Gassho,

Matt

[Seiryu]

Re: The Zen Mind

One thing that I would like to hear a little more on is the Kyosaku. At least in terms of it being used to hit an exact pressure point used in accupuncture. Is this correct and if so what is the pressure point which is struck supposed to do to the body? It was really interesting, and infact would be pretty cool if it were so, but I'm just not sure if I buy this one

I found this interesting too, albeit somewhat IMHO....not based on real fact. However, "pressure points" on the body do correspond to nerves running along the body, as well as origins and insertions of muscle. A martial art that I practice and teach is based on traditional Japanese jujutsu, accupuncture and Shiatsu I don't buy the whole hitting a point to make someone energized or tired or whatever, but it does have some effect. I think its more physiological than energy lines running around the body. Just my 2 cents.

Gassho,

Matt

I was hit once (I requested to be) at a zendo, and I don't know if it was pressure points or not, but it did keep me awake. Probably since hearing a loud smack in a quiet room is something that is hard to just doze by. But it does take some tension out of the shoulders in long sits, so...I guess it is ok...

Gassho

Seiryu

[Hoyu]

Re: The Zen Mind

Seiryu wrote:
I don't know if it was pressure points or not, but it did keep me awake.

This is good to know, given the location of where the Kyosaku lands! Every time I've seen that area of the body manipulated in Star Trek it never ends well. Rather, it puts you to sleep. Sorry but everything I know about pressure points I learned from Spock!

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Re: The Zen Mind

Hi,

I have both administered and been administered the Kyosaku (Rinzai folks call it "keisaku"; literally "warnng/waking stick", sometimes "incense board" which may have been its origin ??/??) many times ... had my ear accidently clipped a few times too. Sometimes hard, sometimes more gently.

In Nishijima Roshi's Lineage, we tend to not use it ... it sits on the altar in our Zendo. Why does my lineage not use it? Nishijima and others in the lineage (not sure this applies to all teachers in the lineage ... also other teachers in the west like Norman Fisher are moving away from it) are not into the superficial violence of the thing (it is like spanking your child ... yes, it is done with love and the noise is worse than the pain itself, but still ...) , not into the sudden slapping noise during the middle of Zazen. There are other ways to wake someone up or the like during Zazen. In Rinzai Zen (with many exceptions), generally more punching and yelling and kicking than in Soto practice. I have been beaten semi-silly with a Keisaku during a Rinzai sitting in Japan. (Why do I keep it on the altar? Someone explained: "Today we have "maku mozo, no illusions please", or some such phrase written on it, and it is highly respected. It’s considered to be the sword of Monju, the sword which cuts through torpor and ignorance, and it is treated as such.")



Anyway, I go either way on the issue. At the Maezumi lineage group where I used to help out teaching, it is used for "Special" times (like retreats), and used pretty gently. At Soji-ji, where I sat for about 10 years before I was ordained, it was used at the Start of EVERY sitting for everybody in the room, then upon request.

Let me add that some recent research shows that it is not all so traditional. In the Buddha's time, maybe even when Dogen went to China, they used more of a stick with a soft ball on the end to gently prod or nudge the person who was dosing off. Dogen recounts the image of his teacher hitting a monk on the back with a slipper for sleeping, and we try to not fall asleep when sitting (not so easy sometimes, as the brainwaves during Zazen are very close to crossing over into sleep), and I am not totally against it if used without anger and violence, but I generally do not like the way of hitting someone during Zazen.

If you want, I could work up a machine where, with a click of the mouse, I can Kyosaku folks over the internet. Or, doing our retreats, people can Kyosaku themselves! :-)

Gassho, J

[Amelia]

Re: The Zen Mind

Doesn't a good, not cruel, thwak! release a few endorphins as well? Or am I misinformed? ops:

[Shokai]

Re: The Zen Mind

Amelia;
Not sure if endorphins or adrenalin, certainly the sound alone breaking silence, stirs the senses. To me it is a part of the zendo experience and never was I clipped on the ear. Jundo-oso's experience however,convinces me that not too many zen priests are trained to pick out that acupuncture point you all are concerned about.

I thinking I might try to train Billie (our cat ) to wield a kyosaku :lol: Although I'm not sure she stays awake very long herself during our sitting.
( you may say she has no opposable thumbs but miracles are what it's all about )

[Kyonin]

Re: The Zen Mind

Doesn't a good, not cruel, thwak! release a few endorphins as well? Or am I misinformed? ops:

Nope, not endorphines but adrenaline. It's bound to wake you up and return you into alert mode. It's the same effect when you get slapped when freaking out. Saw it in Mythbusters. heh