Fear

[Ryumon]

A thought crossed my mind last night after sitting. It's about fear. We all have it, and fear, in my opinion, is the most primal emotion. Other emotions - anger, aggression, hatred, envy - can all be seen, in some way, to arise from fear. There's not much we can do to avoid fear, except to try and be fearless, but then something happens, and once again, fear arises from our lizard brain, and takes over in a fight-or-flight reaction that has evolved to save us from Danger.

Perhaps fear is one of the things that prevents us from making realizations when sitting. Not the fear that expresses itself as anger or hatred, but the fear of seeing the Truth, of realizing Non-Self, of grasping Emptiness. If you've ever had any kensho experiences - I've had a few over the years, both during meditation, and, some decades ago, through chemical ingestion - you may have had the feeling that you were suspended over a great Unknown, an empty space with nothing to support you but your own confidence and trust. This Unknown can be like a huge ocean, a vast empty space; it can be like walking off the edge of a high building, and looking down, like Wile E. Coyote, suddenly realizing that there's nothing under your feet.

It may be that overcoming this fear is the biggest hurdle to realizations when sitting. It may be that we need to grasp this fear and hold on to it until we become one with it, then take that step into the void. But fear is so primal that it's hard to ignore. When it arises, we can't simply step around it; we get absorbed by it.

We need to face this fear and go beyond it.

[will]

Re: Fear

I'll tell you what's prevented me from sitting, mostly, crappy posture. Especially at the computer. Enso.

Fear. Fear is just another thing. Go beyond fear. Fear is indeed an instinct, but the ability to act without fear, and seeing the need to act through fear without fear is the point.

This brings up a good story, or thought:

I was on the mountain (we have one beside the school), and the I remember the feeling of getting lost, and not bieng able to find your way back. Though, how often do we notice the bugs and ants, or the just the moment right here. Everything is fine where it is. Don't worry, you'll find your way back. I did.

Gassho

Will

[Ryumon]

Re: Fear

Re posture: I sit on a stool now. I have arthritis in my knees, neck and back, and sitting on a cushion was just too painful. I take a stool and put a piece of wood under the back legs, so it's slightly tilted. Unorthodox, perhaps, but it works.

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear

Kirkmc wrote:
Perhaps fear is one of the things that prevents us from making realizations when sitting

I can see perhaps how fear could possibly prevent us from making realizations off the Zafu, stool, ect but should we be expecting or even searching for this while actually sitting?

Gassho,
John

[will]

Re: Fear

Re posture: I sit on a stool now. I have arthritis in my knees, neck and back, and sitting on a cushion was just too painful. I take a stool and put a piece of wood under the back legs, so it's slightly tilted. Unorthodox, perhaps, but it works.

I'm not sure. I was positive that I had arthritis because my mother had it, but I sit fine now. I find my practice is most off during the day when I get distracted and forget about it.

Sitting on a stool is fine I think. I sat on a stone pedestal seat yesterday (just a bench). Most important is just balanced posture I think, then we can just forget about it and sit.

Gassho

Will

[Jundo]

Re: Fear

A thought crossed my mind last night after sitting. It's about fear. We all have it, and fear, in my opinion, is the most primal emotion. Other emotions - anger, aggression, hatred, envy - can all be seen, in some way, to arise from fear. There's not much we can do to avoid fear, except to try and be fearless, but then something happens, and once again, fear arises from our lizard brain, and takes over in a fight-or-flight reaction that has evolved to save us from Danger.

Fear, like many hard aspects of this life and mind such as anger or a past trauma, can be one of the great obstacles ... or a great catalyst. In sitting, we learn to sit with each, transform each. I agree, however, that these things are 'hard wired' into our animal brains, yet we do not need to be their prisoner. They can be transformed, and are transformative.

I feel there is a difference between normal, ordinary "needed to keep us safe" fear ... as well as fear that can be used in a constructive and positive sense to propel us forward (like the time I took parachuting lessons because of my fear of flying ... one way of stepping off the 100 foot pole literally!) ... and panic, overwhelming fear and the like that imprisons us, drowns us.

We have had some good threads in the past on fear. I once wrote this ...

It -is- natural to have some fear, it is hard wired into the brain in the most primal parts. No amount of reasoning about it will make it go away. You are changing jobs [facing illness, in a burning building, etc.], and that is stressful and scary. Furthermore, not even Zazen will keep all the fear away (at least, not until we all become perfect Buddhas). So our way (at least, in this corner of Buddhism) is not to be thoroughly without panic, fears, moments of emotional imbalance. It is to stop fighting it ... and then, though the fear might still be present to some degree, it loses its fire.

Being afraid is one thing ... being 'afraid of being afraid' and resisting being afraid is another, and pours fuel on the fire!

Often our Zazen will even let us "just sit" with the fear. And just sitting with that .... dropping resistance to the fear as well as to everything else ... can usually (not always) help that fear and anxiety lose some of its fire (because sitting resisting the fear has the effect of pouring more fuel on the fear, while sitting while not resisting the fear turns the fear into something much smaller!)

A funny thing that can result is an experience of feeling fear ... while being totally free of any fear ... ALL AT ONCE. Fear and fearlessness, as one. Most folks who have been on this Zen road for awhile will have an understanding of what I mean by that.

Thich Nhat Hahn, and really all Buddhist teachers, advise that we understand ... in order to get some mastery over ... the mind theatre. Thus, we have the Thich Nhat Hahn inspired "Nurturing Seeds" Practice here ...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1730

Ezra Bayda, a student of Joko Beck, had an article in Tricycle that I recall. It is very much on this theme ...

We’re often not aware of the extent to which fear plays a part in our lives, which means that the first stage of practicing with fear requires acknowledging its presence.

...

Eventually, we all need to be willing to face the deepest, darkest beliefs we have about ourselves. Only in this way can we come to know that they are only beliefs, and not the truth about who we are.

...

When we can feel fear within the spaciousness of the breath and heart, we may even come to see it more as an adventure than a nightmare. To see it as an adventure means being willing to take the ride with curiosity, even with its inevitable ups and downs.


http://www.tricycle.com/insights/the-th ... page=0%2C0

So, befriend one's fears ... learn from one's fears ... be propelled constructively by fear ... heed one's natural fears to avoid hungry tigers in life ... but do not be a prisoner of fear. The only thing we (the self) have to fear is, fear itself.

Gassho, J

[Dosho]

Re: Fear

I feel there is a difference between normal, ordinary "needed to keep us safe" fear ... as well as fear that can be used in a constructive and positive sense to propel us forward (like the time I took parachuting lessons because of my fear of flying ... one way of stepping off the 100 foot pole literally!) ... and panic, overwhelming fear and the like that imprisons us, drowns us.

If they taught you to jump from a height of 100 feet, I'd definitely ask for your money back.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Jundo]

Re: Fear

I feel there is a difference between normal, ordinary "needed to keep us safe" fear ... as well as fear that can be used in a constructive and positive sense to propel us forward (like the time I took parachuting lessons because of my fear of flying ... one way of stepping off the 100 foot pole literally!) ... and panic, overwhelming fear and the like that imprisons us, drowns us.

If they taught you to jump from a height of 100 feet, I'd definitely ask for your money back.

Gassho,
Dosho

Yes, it was actually the 5,000 foot pole as I remember. Jumped twice with a static line... and it was lovely. Also, quite enough.

Gassho, J

[Hoyu]

Re: Fear

Jundo wrote:
(like the time I took parachuting lessons because of my fear of flying

My mom who is deathly afraid of heights went sky diving to overcome it! The whole idea of getting over fears kind of bombed out when my dad's parachute didn't open and we watched him tangled and twisted falling from the sky! Luckily the emergency chute opened just in time :shock:
Needless to say there was much fear that day!

Gassho,
John

[Dosho]

Re: Fear

Yes, it was actually the 5,000 foot pole as I remember. Jumped twice with a static line... and it was lovely. Also, quite enough.

Interesting...I have never heard of such a thing. I figured if I ever wanted to experience something like that I'd either have to jump from an airplane or not. That's not likely, but could imagine myself doing what you did someday since there are a few things I never thought I could do before I began sitting. So anything is possible.

[Jundo]

Re: Fear

Yes, it was actually the 5,000 foot pole as I remember. Jumped twice with a static line... and it was lovely. Also, quite enough.

Interesting...I have never heard of such a thing. I figured if I ever wanted to experience something like that I'd either have to jump from an airplane or not. That's not likely, but could imagine myself doing what you did someday since there are a few things I never thought I could do before I began sitting. So anything is possible.

Yes, there was actually an airplane on top of the pole.

John, your dad's story brings chills up my spine. I am glad for his safe landing.

Gassho, J

[Dosho]

Re: Fear

Yes, there was actually an airplane on top of the pole.

And I was just saying to my wife earlier this evening that 1 out of every 10 people don't get sarcasm...so, count me as one of those ten on this one! ops: Serves me right for trying to make a joke! :lol:

[fendis]

Re: Fear

And I was just saying to my wife earlier this evening that 1 out of every 10 people don't get sarcasm...so, count me as one of those ten on this one! ops: Serves me right for trying to make a joke! :lol:

In your defense, it's really difficult to convey sarcasm over the internet

[Ryumon]

Re: Fear

I appreciate the replies, but the fear that I was talking about transcends normal fear; it is a fear that questions our very existence, the fear of discovering emptiness and no-self. Being afraid of something like flying is a more normal fear; I'm talking about the ultimate existential fear that is probably the hardest to overcome. I'm not sure it's a fear we actually think about or realize that we have, but my hypothesis is that this fear, that we cannot put into words or even thought, pervades our minds, especially when sitting and getting closer to the Truth.

[Jundo]

Re: Fear

I appreciate the replies, but the fear that I was talking about transcends normal fear; it is a fear that questions our very existence, the fear of discovering emptiness and no-self. Being afraid of something like flying is a more normal fear; I'm talking about the ultimate existential fear that is probably the hardest to overcome. I'm not sure it's a fear we actually think about or realize that we have, but my hypothesis is that this fear, that we cannot put into words or even thought, pervades our minds, especially when sitting and getting closer to the Truth.

Hi,

Most certainly these is that desperate, existential fear that the little "self" manifests in seeking to protect itself, clutching tightly to its place ... its "self identity" made of desires, memories and all the rest ... clinging for dear life, refusing to let go. Oh yes, that for sure! The little "self" does not like the idea of being put "out of a job" via dropping ideas, desires, memories and all the rest that makes up "the self". The "self" is afraid to give up its little position on top of the 100 ft. pole.

Perhaps that is what you mean, Kirk?

One lovely thing about Shikantaza is that, in the dropping, we rather "sneak up" on the little self, as opposed to a full frontal attack. That is, we "drop" this and that so gently, so subtly, that the "self" may barely have a chance to notice what's going on. It reminds me of the story of the frog and hot water (though actually a scientific myth) ...

If you plunge a frog into boiling water, it will immediately jump out. But if you place the frog into cool water and slowly heat it to boiling, the frog won’t notice and will just sit there until the end.

This reminds me of something I posted elsewhere today ...

I sometimes compare Shikantaza Zazen to those trick Chinese finger cuffs. Remember those?



You pull and you pull, thinking you must escape or obtain something ... and the cuffs just tighten, tighten. Perhaps one can push right through, or struggle to break it apart. However, completely give up, relax, stop trying ... and you slip right out. Well, the way to relax and be still is not to try to "relax and be still" ... but to relax and be still. Let it be, let it go ... body-mind dropped away ...

One matter I might pick a bone with, however, is this ...

... especially when sitting and getting closer to the Truth.

Did you mean something like you described before?

If you've ever had any kensho experiences - I've had a few over the years, both during meditation, and, some decades ago, through chemical ingestion - you may have had the feeling that you were suspended over a great Unknown, an empty space with nothing to support you but your own confidence and trust. This Unknown can be like a huge ocean, a vast empty space; it can be like walking off the edge of a high building, and looking down, like Wile E. Coyote, suddenly realizing that there's nothing under your feet.

Do you feel that is THE TRUTH? Well, it is --THE-- TRUTH, yet it is just --A-- TRUTH. What you describe is thus not --THE TRUTH-- for there are myriad --THE TRUTH--. In other words, it is a perspective, toward which we yawn and move on ... like a visit to the top of a mountain with boundless scenery all around, where we pause momentarily before getting on with life's hike. There are infinite --THE--TRUTH(s) ever unfolding. Don't get caught, or run toward ... or give too much import to ... Wile Coyote empty space.

In fact, THE TRUTH(S) are right before you always, and nothing you can "get closer to". This is also a lesson(s) of Shikantaza. --The-- Truth that you are pointing to is not more than of passing interest, and we pause briefly ... buy a post card ... and get back on the bus trip to --The Ever Unfolding Truths--.

Something like that.

Gassho, J