Criticising other Buddhist traditions/teachers.

[paige]

Re: Criticising other Buddhist traditions/teachers.

but reading through history it appears that (in Japan at least) it was common to discount the teachings of other teachers and traditions.

You're talking about Hakuin, aren't you Jun?

The way I see it - no matter what the rules are, there will always be politics in Buddhism, and there will always be fighting in hockey. I personally find both these things a bit tiresome, but I'm not wringing my hands over it.

Since I have been practising meditation and Buddhism for a fair few years, people sometimes do ask my advice on picking a centre. In those situations, I do tell them that a couple of the local groups are pretty controversial, and that I personally recommend caution there.

[Jun]

Re: Criticising other Buddhist traditions/teachers.

but reading through history it appears that (in Japan at least) it was common to discount the teachings of other teachers and traditions.

You're talking about Hakuin, aren't you Jun?

The way I see it - no matter what the rules are, there will always be politics in Buddhism, and there will always be fighting in hockey. I personally find both these things a bit tiresome, but I'm not wringing my hands over it.

Since I have been practising meditation and Buddhism for a fair few years, people sometimes do ask my advice on picking a centre. In those situations, I do tell them that a couple of the local groups are pretty controversial, and that I personally recommend caution there.

Hello Paige,

I wasn't talking about any one person in Japanese history - just in general.

I'm aware of the politics of Buddhism in Japan having practised Shingon-shu for a time and witnessing the beauocracy in play there.

Gassho

[Jun]

Hi Jun,

May I append to my answer then? Questions like this bring back the lawyer (now retired) in me, and the love of fine distinctions.

I see nothing wrong whatsoever with mentioning other schools and teachers by name, and discussing the pros/cons of their various methods and recommendations and practices in the most direct and clear terms, stating my opinions and criticisms directly ... as long as I do so with a smile on my face, knowing that such is but my view and others may find things to be otherwise. I will tell you to do things a certain way because I consider them better for many people, but I never insist that other ways might not be better for other people.

Like any apprentice of a master artist, I will attempt to follow my teacher's ways, then make them my way ... keeping most aspects, changing some in my style. Now that I am a teacher too, I will not hesitate to criticize politely my own teacher's ways if I think I might suggest to him something.

Gassho, Jundo

Jundo,

If I may ask, what is your opinion (if indeed you have one) on the topic of 批判仏教?

Gassho

[Jundo]

If I may ask, what is your opinion (if indeed you have one) on the topic of 批判仏教?

Gassho

Hi Jun,

I think you mean the historical-revisionist study of Zen Buddhist doctrine known as "Critical Buddhism"? That is a big topic, and I have not read much about it for a long time. Do you mean their criticism of, for example, the sexism and discriminatory (against minorities) tendency in the Zen and other Japanese Buddhist schools, and the whole subject of militarism and nationalism, all during the 19th and early 20th centuries? (or do you mean more philosophical issues, such as the subject of "Buddha Nature" in Zen Buddhism, which they also criticized)?

On the former issues: Zen priests are human beings living in a given culture at a given time in history. Zen philosophy (and the Precepts) are like clay, able to fit many molds. So, when the priests were living in a male dominated society, for example, that was very racist and nationalistic ... many of them could mold a Zen Buddhism that fit those beliefs and stretched to encompass them.

On the latter issue of Buddha Nature and such ... I will simply sweep the leaves on my stoop. Whether there is such a thing, or not, my leaves need sweeping.(Subjects like that can be like debating what makes a good haiku poem ... just write the darn poem and be done with it).

And Jordan, good citation of Bendowa. (My copy of Nishijima's translation is in storage, so I had to find another). But, yes, Dogen walked a very fine line in such writings of strong criticism of various Buddhist practices while not (I think) overdoing it (although, maybe in modern terms, he could have softened some of his ways of putting things). Thus he wrote such lines as these (done in Question & Answer form):

3 Q: ... To ordinary people, reading the sutra and saying the Nembutsu are the natural means to enlightenment. You just sit cross-legged and do nothing. How is this a means to enlightenment?

A: You look on the meditation of the Buddhas and the supreme law as just sitting and doing nothing. You disparage Mahayana Buddhism. Your delusion is deep; you are like someone in the middle of the ocean crying out for water. Fortunately we are already sitting at ease in the self-joyous meditation of the Buddhas. Isn't this a great boon? What a pity that your true-eye remains shut-that your mind remains drunk. The world of the Buddhas eludes ordinary thinking and consciousness. It cannot be known by disbelief and inferior knowledge. To enter one must have right belief. The disbeliever, even if taught, has trouble grasping it. For example, when the Buddha was preaching at Grdhrakuta, the disbelieves were allowed to go away. To bring out the right belief in your mind you must train and study. If you cannot do this, you should quit for awhile, regretting that you lack the influence of the law from a former beneficial relation. What good are such actions as reading the sutras and saying the Nembutsu. How futile to think that Buddhist merits accrue from merely moving the tongue and raising the voice. If you think this covers Buddhism, you are far from the truth. Your only purpose in reading the sutras should be to learn thoroughly that the Buddha taught the rules of gradual and sudden training and that by practicing his teachings you can obtain enlightenment. You should not read the sutras merely to pretend to wisdom through vain intellections. To strive for the goal of Buddhism by reading many sutras is like pointing the hill to the north and heading south. It is like putting a square peg in a round hole. While you look at words and phrases, the path of your training remains dark. This is as worthless as a doctor who forgets his prescription. Constant repetition of the Nembutsu is also worthless-like a frog in a spring field croaking night and day [NOTE FROM JUNDO]. Those deluded by fame and fortune, find it especially difficult to abandon the nembutsu. Bound by deep roots to a profit-seeking mind, they existed in ages past, and they exist today. They are to be pitied. Understand only this: if enlightened Zen masters and their earnest disciples correctly transmit the supreme law of the seven Buddhas, its essence emerges, and it can be experienced. Those who merely study the letters of the sutras cannot know this. So put a stop to this doubt and delusion. Follow the teachings of a real master and, by zazen; attain to the self-joyous samadhi of the Buddhas.

12. Q: Is there any objection to a serious student of zazen practicing the mantra of the Shingon sect and the Samathavipa'syana (calm and insight) of the Tendai sect together?

A: When I was in China and heard the gist of Buddhism from the Zen masters, they said they had never heard of any patriarchs who truly transmitted the Buddha seal, now and in the past, undertaking such simultaneous training. Unless we earnestly concentrate on one thing, we cannot gain one wisdom.

13: Q: Can a layman practice this zazen or is it limited to priests?

A: The patriarchs have said that to understand Buddhism there should be no distinction between man and woman and between rich and poor.

Anyway, off to those leaves ...

Gassho, Jundo

[wills]

How much of a reaction to criticism is a reaction to the actual heart of the critique and how much of it is a reaction to the message and the messenger? How much of criticism and the reaction to it is brought about by my own expectations?
How much criticism is just spot on, but delivered badly, and therefore ineffective?

I find it nearly impossible to have no expectations, especially in what I think a Buddhist teacher should be, what I expect him to do and say. And at the same time I find that in those few moments when I can hold my tongue and refrain from criticizing/reacting to criticism, I learn a terribly good bit more (and everyone, self included, is generally happier) than if I opened my mouth.
I certainly lose the opportunity to deliver a devastating insult or make an insightful comment, but in general I learn more and it's net net better for all (though it's not nearly as much fun!)

Not sure what works for other folks, but I am starting to figure out what works for me, and therefore I take the precepts for what they mean to me. Which is basically:
* call a spade a spade
* things are generally better when I shut up
* don't expect someone to be anything but himself

I'll be taking the precepts later this summer, so when I get my very own lobster bib maybe then I'll be blinded by some maddening insight, but until then I will continue to think criticism is important, and not always better to give than receive.

Regards,

r e n

I also am taking the precepts later this year. All this talk of criticising the teachings of other Buddhist teachers/traditions reminds me of the Sixth Precept :: Take up the way of not discussing the faults of others. I understand this to mean that while speaking "truth to power" I will remain centered, compassionate and sometimes silent. Leave my ego out of the experience. You describe this nicely.

ren -- I hate to be the one to break the news to you, when you get your very own lobster bib you won't be blinded by some maddening insight but 108 maidens will meet you as part of the graduation party. WINK WINK

[Jun]

Hi Jun,

I think you mean the historical-revisionist study of Zen Buddhist doctrine known as "Critical Buddhism"? That is a big topic, and I have not read much about it for a long time.

On the latter issue of Buddha Nature and such ... I will simply sweep the leaves on my stoop. Whether there is such a thing, or not, my leaves need sweeping.(Subjects like that can be like debating what makes a good haiku poem ... just write the darn poem and be done with it).

Gassho, Jundo

Hello Jundo,

I was interested in hearing your take on 本覚思想 (hongaku shisõ) and the claim that 如来蔵 (nyoraizõ) thought is not Buddhism let alone Zen.

I think your answer sums up your opinion of the matter nicely. Thank you.

gassho

[paige]

Re: Criticising other Buddhist traditions/teachers.

Hello Paige,

I wasn't talking about any one person in Japanese history - just in general.

I'm aware of the politics of Buddhism in Japan having practised Shingon-shu for a time and witnessing the beauocracy in play there.

Gassho

Hmmm... my feeling is that most people who have the conviction and personality to strike out on their own and develop new teachings/ religious traditions probably aren't the "there are many paths up a mountain" types. Probably pretty likely to rant against "the establishment" :wink: and leave the conciliatory approach to subsequent generations.

Since you live in Japan, I'm guessing you've had a more up-close & personal experience of Buddhist politics there. I'm Canadian, so I've only heard 2nd or 3rd hand accounts. Which generally make me feel :roll:

[Jun]

Re: Criticising other Buddhist traditions/teachers.

Hmmm... my feeling is that most people who have the conviction and personality to strike out on their own and develop new teachings/ religious traditions probably aren't the "there are many paths up a mountain" types. Probably pretty likely to rant against "the establishment" and leave the conciliatory approach to subsequent generations.

Hello Paige,

You are probably right there on most counts, but not all. Looking back through history some who decided to break with their tradition/teachers were looking to refresh the teachings and escape from the perceived decline in the teachings and beauocracy.

Ps. Although I'm not living in Japan presently, I'm still in close contact with family and friends and I visit once or twice a year for extended periods. My experience with Shingon-shu beauocracy and politics was a sour experience, but something that has been going on since the eighth century.

[Justin]

something that has been going on since the eighth century.

Talk about "you can't fight City Hall."