Zendo and Mosque

Re: Zendo and Mosque

A very interesting discussion. I would also add chanting to your practice, and maybe the occasional zen shout! :P

Hi all,
We have a small room in the hospital here for prayer/meditaion. I've tried to use it for Zazen but faced a similar issue. The difference being this small room has a lock on the door and a sign you can slide to say open or in use. Even so the Muslim workers who come to pray when I'm in there knock repeatedly on the door. And Im only doing 10 minute sits!
One Muslim girl yelled at a Christian woman for using a room that was in her words "for Muslims". She was corrected by another employee that the room is for use by all. Another Cristian complained that they would throw out any bible that would be in the room. Yet they have a big trunk with prayed blankets and the like that nobody would throw out or get rid of out of fear.
Since they really believe that they get one step closer to going to he'll with every missed prayer and I don't believe this to be so for myself(I can do Zazen freely and at any time) I've given up using he room

This reminded me of the "prayer room" at Changi airport (Singapore), which I sought out in high hopes of a quiet hour or so, just to find it only catered to Muslims. Too bad this isn't working for you at the hospital.

[Jinyu]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

I would begin the sitting with chanting the Heart Sutra. This chanting also lets others know what to do.

Seems like a good advice :roll:

Thank you for sharing Soen! And thanks to everyone for their comments... vast and complex subject.

The sweet song of Rumi, a song of love and total acceptance and surrender, still needs to be heard.
The path of the crazy wisdom derserves to be lived.
The dance of non-duality to be experienced.

Beautiful Taigu sensei, but sadly like Majushri's sword transcending illusions and attachments, the path of crazy wisdom is not easy to swallow for those confine in their certitudes...

I also work with childrens in schools and have to deal with religious intolerance, above all when I share a "Philosophy workshop" with them.
But here schools generally do not allow any religious manifestations, or in the catholic schools no proselytism is allowed... Secularism (I believe it is the same thing we call "Laicity" in French) is primordial, and with respect to every believer (and non-believer) it is widely accepted that school is a public space for knowledge. Any religious manifestations is seen as something private that must be kept in the family or community realm.
Some catholic schools have Chapels, and generally those places are used by everyone for any "spiritual practice" but outside Chapels, in the rest of the school "Religion is not allowed", except for Philosophy classes.

Different countries, different views, different intolerances...

Keep cultivating Patience with your students! And thank you for sharing Soen :wink:

gassho,
Jinyu

[Rich]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Now what do you do? Great Zen question

I would begin the sitting with chanting the Heart Sutra. This chanting also lets others know what to do.

[Shokai]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Soen;

After reading the last few post made here I am sure you will find the skillful communication style to fit the occasion.

Richard

[Hans]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Hello Soen,

just to clarify, I would never advocate "playing hardball" or whatever just for the sake of abiding to rules. All I meant to say is that these situations are always unique and that though one should try to express as much equanimity as possible, there may be instances where nice and gentle action/non-action might be mis-interpreted as weakness and backfire.

Sometimes I am reminded of The Life of Brian when it comes to human conflicts of interest, where Brian first denies being the Messiah, then affirms it....but no matter what he says it was used against him.

One of my favourite English expressions I learned in the last couple of years must be "passive-agressive". When people have an issue with someone and they push his/her buttons, they can call him/her rude, if he/she stays calm, they call him/her passive-agressive. No way out. Now what do you do? Great Zen question

I'm sure you'll handle it well, but please, whatever you do, don't hit anyone thirty times with a stick!

Gassho,

Hans

P.S. And please keep in mind I am only a novice who is bound to see things differently in the not too distant future.

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Taigu, Hans, Chris, Shokai, Shards, everyone,
Thank you for this. There is a time to be quiet and a time to speak out. There is soft love and tough love. Kannon uses both, I guess Taigu?
Hans. I think I’m a bit Germanic myself. I agree with you on rules. But I will see how this plays out.
Thank you all. I will keep you updated on what happens.
Gassho,
Soen

[Taigu]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Kannon has a thousand hands - maybe she'll lend a few to plug your ears!

Either way, as long as you act from a place of clarity, I'm sure that your actions will be the right ones.

Although I feel very much like Hans... I really like this plug thing. Thank you.

The One God intoxication has all along been a great disturbance in the history of mankind, the one Buddha too. The one everything. I am not a great friend of the tibetan propaganda and the guru-lama fashion either.
I feel sick (not in front of as-it-isness...) but in front of the outcomes of blind faith and worship, the way it turns human beings into intolerant voices-actions.
At the same time I really like this idea of surrendering to Kannon to find the strengh to allow this.
Bearing in mind that , unless you talk and COMMUNICATE, these guys and you cannot really meet. You have to really give this guys a chance to hear you.
So you also may ask Kannon to help you to speak in tongues and find a way to calmly and gently find a solution.
And that Kannon is not in the sky, not in Heaven, not in a dream...it is the very Soen that looks after the kids, drives there, and tries to sit peacefully.

Kannon-Soen, you are the tongue, the ear and the plug! What a great koan!

gassho


Taigu

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Dear Soen,

I commend you for your patience.Here's just another two cents that have nothing to do with my religous views...just a personal observation We all have our own ways of dealing with these kinds of situations and they are all unique every time anew. Personally I wouldn't care whether it was Buddhists or Smurfs or Muslims or communists, if I had a room booked and people decided to just enter it anyhow, I'd tell them straight away that's a no-go. But then again I am from a country where people love rules and straight boundaries I fully understand that one has to be extra careful when dealing with religious feelings, but that definitely shouldn't be a one way street and the same rules should apply to all. I am sure you will find a peaceful and wise middle way through all this, but sadly it is also true that open tolerance can also be seen as weakness by some.

Gassho,

Hans

Here's where I see our Zen practice coming to the forefront of our actions. I agree in principal with what Hans said, that rules should apply to all, but being students of the Way we also understand that life can be many things simultaneously. So while they SHOULD apply to all, rules often do not. Realizing this as being the way things are today, one needs to decide whether saying something will cause friction, and whether that friction will end up being of benefit to all involved or if that friction will merely open the door to conflict. If it is beneficial, and perhaps speaking to the students could even open the door to some inter-faith communication and work, then go for it, ask them to respect your group's practice with Kannon's voice. If the most likely outcome is conflict, then..........well, Kannon has a thousand hands - maybe she'll lend a few to plug your ears!

Either way, as long as you act from a place of clarity, I'm sure that your actions will be the right ones.

[Hans]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Dear Soen,

I commend you for your patience.Here's just another two cents that have nothing to do with my religous views...just a personal observation We all have our own ways of dealing with these kinds of situations and they are all unique every time anew. Personally I wouldn't care whether it was Buddhists or Smurfs or Muslims or communists, if I had a room booked and people decided to just enter it anyhow, I'd tell them straight away that's a no-go. But then again I am from a country where people love rules and straight boundaries I fully understand that one has to be extra careful when dealing with religious feelings, but that definitely shouldn't be a one way street and the same rules should apply to all. I am sure you will find a peaceful and wise middle way through all this, but sadly it is also true that open tolerance can also be seen as weakness by some.

Gassho,

Hans

[Shokai]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

I like your style ! (also your references )

[Myozan Kodo]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

“Danger! You are now entering a Zazen zone!”

That might make a nice sign on the door. Or how about this:

“Warning! Buddhists At Work!”

By the way, it needs to be said that none of the Muslim students are in any way aggressive. Indeed, most respect our space. However, for the few that interrupt it shows a lack of sensitivity, more than anything else. It is for that reason that I am following the advice of the great twentieth century philosopher, Paul McCarthy: “Let It Be”.

If they get too loud I'll say something, however.

Gassho,
Soen

[Dokan]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

Just wanted to say that I think it's wonderful that they practice with you. It doesn't sound as if they are being purposefully disruptive. Just practicing their practice. While I understand and agree that the hope would be to have the room as booked for yourself, there are many plans we have that are never realized and this can be practice too.

I think you have an even better chance of peace by accepting them as long as they are not being purposefully disruptive.

However it's very easy to provide such commentary from the safety of my sofa. :-)

Gassho,

Shawn

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

It reminds me that religions are not in and of themselves evil things, or good things, but that it is the people who claim them that make them what they are. They transform them and their thoughts, delusions, and attachments cause the religions to become what they were probably never intended to be. Thus rises this whole mass of suffering....

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

It is truly a shame when it gets so far that people will try to monopolize something for themselves. For them, I think, it must truly be fear of hell alone that motivates them to their religion, that ever present whip dangling above their heads. I find it interesting that when you look at each religion, you find a sect similar in thought to our own. For the Muslims it would be the Sufi, for those who hail from the Punjab and surrounds it is the Sikh, the list goes on. It kind of shows how there is a pure belief in each religion that resonates with all other religions, and then there are the fringe groups that break off to the extremes, like the Thuggees, the Wahabi, Opus Dei, that take the message and make it into something else entirely.

[Kaishin]

Re: Zendo and Mosque

A tough situation indeed. No more advice to add, just encouragement to perservere with your sitting! I think a solution will come to you...

Gassho,
Matt