Disgruntled

[Arquerin]

Re: Disgruntled

Hello all,

There is some decent information on Youtube and elsewhere on the Internet about the Alexander technique. I investigated some of this last night. Also discovered that there are a few teachers within about 2.5 hours of my location, in Richmond and Charlottesville. But I actually have what I think is a pretty decent idea of what the AT involves, just from what I was able to find last night. I know that's not like having lessons, but with all the other things going on right now, it might be the best I can do for a while.

I was able to sit fairly comfortably this morning using pointers from the AT, using a hull pillow in the seat of a straight-backed chair. I decided to start with 10 to 15 minutes like that, and gradually work up to longer times.

Rich, when I was comfortable before, I was really not sitting in any position. I was sitting just wherever I was - in the driver's seat of my car, in my recliner, in my office chair at work, in the hospital cafeteria, really anywhere I could get 10 or 15 minutes to breathe. I am absolutely sure that my breathing was not as beneficial as it could have been, but those sessions were surely good for jangled nerves, fatigue, stress, you name it.

I have a knee injury, too. Apparently my knee is never going to heal. Two years ago this July, I took a flying leap over a concrete parking place marker, and when I landed, it was all on my right knee. I dislocated my kneecap about 2 inches, stretched every tendon and ligament, irritated all 6 of the bursae. I've had nearly every test known to man, two rounds of physical therapy, multiple cortisone shots. The knee joint is mostly stable now, but the soft tissue around it will probably never be right. The swelling still goes a good six inches up my thigh. I wouldn't dare put my weight down on that knee.

I'm very grateful for everyone's responses.

Gassho,

Jane

[Rich]

Re: Disgruntled

Hello all,


Rich, when I was comfortable before, I was really not sitting in any position. I was sitting just wherever I was - in the driver's seat of my car, in my recliner, in my office chair at work, in the hospital cafeteria, really anywhere I could get 10 or 15 minutes to breathe. I am absolutely sure that my breathing was not as beneficial as it could have been, but those sessions were surely good for jangled nerves, fatigue, stress, you name it.

I have a knee injury, too. Apparently my knee is never going to heal. Two years ago this July, I took a flying leap over a concrete parking place marker, and when I landed, it was all on my right knee. I dislocated my kneecap about 2 inches, stretched every tendon and ligament, irritated all 6 of the bursae. I've had nearly every test known to man, two rounds of physical therapy, multiple cortisone shots. The knee joint is mostly stable now, but the soft tissue around it will probably never be right. The swelling still goes a good six inches up my thigh. I wouldn't dare put my weight down on that knee.

I'm very grateful for everyone's responses.

Gassho,

Jane

Sorry about your knee. Mine is slowly getting better - my Dr prescribed exercises, motrin or ibuprophen and glucosamin/chondrotin. As Taigu said be patient and kind with yourself. Maybe 10 min of correct posture (what is correct for you) is your current limit and increase gradually. Driving and recliner meditation have always been among my favorites

[Keishin]

Re: Disgruntled

Hellos to Jane and to all others posting here:

I am late to this discussion, but would like to add a couple of things to the discussion.

Somewhere else in the forum I have written about zazen as translated as sit-ing meditation not seat-ed meditation.
This sitting is active. Nishijima Roshi has described zazen as a balance (balancing) of the autonomic and sympathetic nervous systems.
I'm sure there are a number of ways to describe this activity (zazen) and its effect on mind/body.

In fact this study of the self has allowed me to see mind and experience body as strangely and uniquely one thing.
It is a great place to be, this zazen. I say strangely because for most of my 59 years I have approached them as separate and different.

There is new appreciation for my body as I manage more and more various aspects of it's deterioration (injuries and age).

Knees: therein lies a very important determinant of one's approach to zazen practice. I have knees which subluxate and disclocate easily (and painfully!) due to a shallow groove in one of the bones which tracks the ligament holding the kneecap in place: at unpredictable times my knee will go off track. As I slowly straighten the leg, the ligament pops back into place (the good part about shallow groove is that it is also not so hard to get the ligament back in place).

So! For my body, 'full lotus' for me is a modified burmese-ish position: bum on the kapok zafu, each knee supported with a small cushion. Because my feet are farther away from my hands than a 'real' full lotus would be, I have another cushion which spans the distance from my feet to my hands so I can rest my hands in mudra on this cushion and be in contact with my feet. This helps support the weight of my arms (I have herniated/discs and stenosis of discs in spinal vertebrae of neck).
So ok: with all these cushions I can sit for multiple day sesshins!
There was a period of time when I had injured my right foot and could not sit on a zafu: I sat on a very large exercise ball--kinda like a zafu from Gulliver's Travels--but, better than a chair for me, it gave me the dynamic sit I get when I am on my zafu: there is the simultaneous pressing down and pushing off; the mutual downward and upward mutual motions of sitting. The kapok zafu is kind of like a modified 'ball' (more so than the buckwheat hull kind of zafu). While the buckwheat hull kind seemed to adjust to my posterior in a 'perfect fit', it gave me more of a 'seat-ed' feeling and less of a 'sit-ing' feeling.
In addition to my big yellow exercise ball, I have also had a good 'sitting' experience on my kapok zafu on a low bench: I found both of these to be equivalent in dynamic with regard to my spine as my zafu and knee pillows.

For each of us, it is very important to discover this 'sit-ing.'
Obviously over time and under different conditions, how we can achieve this will vary.
And as duly noted above, for some working with posture helps, for others stretching/yoga helps.

I have to say, from an aesthetic stance, I wish I only needed my zafu and zabuton--it is so simple and beautiful, the round cushion on the square cushion. But I need my two knee pillows and I can go one sitting period without the cushion for the hands, but if I sit more than one period, the strain in the neck/shoulder/muscles combine with my herniated discs in unkind ways. So, ok I have all these pillows and I have come to appreciate each of them!

When I sit, micro-adjustments are constantly going on. I can feel the transfer of the pushing down of 'sit' and the pushing up of 'ing.'

It was a recommendation of Nishijima Roshi several years ago on his blog, which really made a most noticeable difference in my sitting: I had written about my use of small cushions for the knees and he had replied to remember to push down with the knees. This very simple instruction improved my sitting immediately, despite my already having a good, stable posture. It is a living instruction which has stayed with me and which I continue to benefit from. (That is to say, it is an instruction I live).

This topic is worthy of further exploration and those interested in hearing others' experiences can find much written throughout Treeleaf's forums over the years, as well as other places.

A beautiful talk (can't remember quite where I heard it) was given by an experienced practitioner who had become attached to full lotus and when illness prevented him from sitting on a zafu he had a very difficult time, thinking that if it wasn't full lotus, it wasn't a 'worthy' practice.

Any who, I hope this is of benefit, sorry to go on at such length.

[Arquerin]

Re: Disgruntled

Hello Keishin, and thank you for the lovely response. You make it easy for me to see that what I've been trying to reconcile are actually two very different things. My original sitting, while valuable to me in its own way, was not zazen. It was seat-ed meditation. The sitting therein was definitely not active. Perhaps, with this view, I can find balance.

Thank you, and gassho,

Jane

[Rich]

Re: Disgruntled

Thanks Keishin. I am also a big fan of Nishijima. What I would like to suggest is that even off the cushion in our daily life we can maintain good posture whether sitting, standing or lying down; so just driving, or just sitting in a recliner could be a form of meditation. I think Jundo's patented Insta Zazen is what I'm trying to describe.

[Kaishin]

Re: Disgruntled

Keishen, very helpful words. Thank you.
-Matt

[Graceleejenkins]

Re: Disgruntled

I took three Alexander lessons and read his book. Unfortunately, the teacher that I had left. However, the learning exercises in Alexander's book were very helpful even without an instructor, although an instructor is highly recommended, if not insisted upon as necessary.

I have also done yoga off and on for years. It was the only thing that resolved the pain in my neck and shoulders, which sometimes even kept me from lifting my head off of the pillow. After six months of yoga, the relief lasted even during a following six month hiatus.

As you, I am also 59 (and overweight, and although everyone says yoga should help with that, it doesn't seem too), but I am very flexible and limber because of the yoga, and I sit on the floor with no cushions in a modified lotus with very little discomfort. When I don't do yoga, my body feels like it becomes knotted and constricted and almost begs to do yoga. I highly recommend yoga.

I mostly practiced from videos. I liked Lilias, Deni Preston in the yoga series from Total Body Workout on BYU TV (I would recommend the restorative yoga sessions first), Namaste yoga by Kate Potter on both TV and video, and although I don't like "hot" yoga, Bikram has an exellent series of exercises if you can find his old book Bikram's Beginning Yoga. Deni Preton taught me to breathe the best.

I am very glad that I found yoga, and I believe I would have been in great pain in my life without it. And even though I am not a consistent practitioner, its benefits have lasted throughout my life.

Sorry, I am a rank beginner at zazen, so no help there. Sitting doesn't bother me (making the time is my downfall), but that is probably because I am not doing it correctly! All the best, Grace.