108 Bows for Happiness

[Jundo]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I believe spiritual materialism deserves its place here. Why do we want to mix traditions, teachers, religions, practices? Because we feel something is lacking. Our traditions has no bows, well we want some g*****n bows! No chanting? Well I'll take this mantra from here, than one from there, oh this one is nice too...

And soon our shopping cart is full. All we have is stuff.

Somewhat like a buffet, when you eat everything you see and savor nothing, all you do is leave overstuffed and under satisfied. Taste what's in front of you.

Gassho,
Taylor (Myoken)

Lovely. As you know, that is sometimes called "spiritual materialism" ... spiritual, never satisfied, consumerism.

Gassho, J

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I loved the 108 reasons. Thank you for sharing them! I don't feel they will change the way I bow however.

I believe spiritual materialism deserves its place here. Why do we want to mix traditions, teachers, religions, practices? Because we feel something is lacking. Our traditions has no bows, well we want some g*****n bows! No chanting? Well I'll take this mantra from here, than one from there, oh this one is nice too...

And soon our shopping cart is full. All we have is stuff.

This is important I feel, thanks.
It is one of the reasons why I don't want to add too many practices or rituals too soon. For now, I'm sticking to daily sitting, vow and repentance.
But bowing is slowly becoming a natural part of my life and practice too. It started after reading Zen mind, Beginner's mind by Suzuki Roshi, who (among many other Zen masters) believes bowing is a very important practice. At first it didn't really speak to me. I didn't understand its importance. But now I find myself bowing most days, without thinking about it. Not so much to people I meet, but to the universe after sitting, to nature when I'm taking a walk, to the dog or my kid out of affection, to myself. I think it's important that the bow comes from the heart, that is comes naturally, spontaneously, initiated from nothingness. In that way it's an act of pure practice, of pure mind, the activity of a Buddha. If you feel like bowing, bow.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Taigu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Indeed Pontus but let me explain...

at the beginning you bow to something, nature, people, statue, teacher,
then you bow whenever you feel like doing it
comes a time where you bow because you bow, nothing special
and then bowing bows itself

All these ways to bow exist here and now. Choose one, the others vanish. That is why in the teachings of Dogen we insist that we should not bow to anything and because we feel like it. Understanding this with your marrow is important. When expressing the Buddha-Dharma, one has to be very precise, very clear. Otherwise, it gets muddy quickly. And if you think the bow comes from the heart, it is very likely not: true heart in activity does not know itself, knows no indulgence of "I feel like bowing to a kid, a dog, nature or myself". Sentimentality is one of my biggest problems .

Because your voice is wrapped with authority, please, allow mine to answer straightforwardly.

Your choice of not adding too many rituals too soon sounds very valid to my young beginner's ears. And thank you for your practice.

gassho


Taigu

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

at the beginning you bow to something, nature, people, statue, teacher,
then you bow whenever you feel like doing it
comes a time where you bow because you bow, nothing special
and then bowing bows itself

Ah, thank you.

All these ways to bow exist here and now. Choose one, the others vanish. That is why in the teachings of Dogen we insist that we should not bow to anything and because we feel like it.

I know very little of Dogen's teachings still. Would you like to elaborate on this so I may get a better understanding on Dogen's view, or point me to where I can learn more about his view on bowing? What I meant to say is that when the bowing comes naturally, spontaneously, I feel it is my true self bowing and not my ego. This understanding is perhaps not correct?

Understanding this with your marrow is important. When expressing the Buddha-Dharma, one has to be very precise, very clear. Otherwise, it gets muddy quickly. And if you think the bow comes from the heart, it is very likely not: true heart in activity does not know itself, knows no indulgence of "I feel like bowing to a kid, a dog, nature or myself". Sentimentality is one of my biggest problems .

Because your voice is wrapped with authority, please, allow mine to answer straightforwardly.

I know that sometimes I may sound as if I speak with some authority. ops: It's a fault of mine that I have to be observant of and I thank you for pointing it out. Please do so again if needed. It is not intentional and I try to add a little disclaimer every once in a while, so that other members may know that my postings should never be taken as the 'truth' or coming from an authority, that it is my understanding and my feeling, deluded as it may be. If there is authority behind the words, I try to cite the source when possible. Thank you for being straightforward, even though in this case, it hurts my ego a little bit.

'Heart' may very well have been a bad choice of words here, I don't know. I'm not used to expressing these things and it's very hard sometimes to choose the right words, especially when it's not your first language. But it's good practice in many ways! After the word 'heart' I said "naturally, spontaneously, initiated from nothingness". That was meant to be in the spirit of "true heart in activity does not know itself", but put in poorer words. That is also what I meant when I said "I find myself bowing" and not "I feel like bowing". In my last line however, I did say "if you feel like bowing, bow". A better way of of putting it would have been "if you find yourself bowing out of no reason, don't resist it". Please correct me if you feel this is wrong.

Thank you for the poke and for forcing me to express myself more clearly and precisely.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Seiryu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I'm loving these responses! Its cool because I just found that practice and thought to share it without much thought...

I believe spiritual materialism deserves its place here. Why do we want to mix traditions, teachers, religions, practices? Because we feel something is lacking. Our traditions has no bows, well we want some g*****n bows! No chanting? Well I'll take this mantra from here, than one from there, oh this one is nice too...

And soon our shopping cart is full. All we have is stuff.

Somewhat like a buffet, when you eat everything you see and savor nothing, all you do is leave overstuffed and under satisfied. Taste what's in front of you.

I wouldn't go as far to call it spiritual materialism. It is not that something is lacking or I want something that I do not have. Not at all. I do feel that everything is an expression of zazen, whether doing sitting zazen, walking zazen, bowing zazen, not doing-zazen zazen, what is not an expression of zazen? It is not spiritual shopping because my cart is empty...just looking, and feeling how others express the same the thing. other wise our view can become very limited. "If it is not Soto zen done this way, I won't even look at it." I know this is not what is happening here, but this is an outcome I have seen with many other practitioners, "There way or the high way" so to speak. This beautiful practice is to remove blinders not to take off old ones to put on new ones.

When the Buddha was alive he thought from the heart, and express his profound discoveries outside of a real religious framework. Now, it feels like we are trying to do the same by putting the same teachings inside a box called Buddhism, Zen, Tibetan Buddhism...etc

This is important I feel, thanks.
It is one of the reasons why I don't want to add too many practices or rituals too soon.

I agree, sometimes doing too much at the same time becomes an obstacle.

Forgive my ranting just wanted to add to the already interesting discussion. Thank you!

Gassho

Seiryu

[Taigu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Hi Pontus,

I often like to think of one teaching of my good old teacher Chodo: the miror principle. What you see in others is nothing but you. And it works very well between you and me! :lol: :wink: What I call authority in you I often call my f....... arrogance. Must be a scholar scar of some sort...
Anyway thank you for your patience and willingness to learn and sit and bow and listen.

Dogen's chapter on bowing and obtaining the marrow could be a good start, you'll find it in Shobogenzo Raihai Tokuzui:

http://hcbss.stanford.edu/research/proj ... ation.html


The poem I quoted could be chewed until It chews you. Once the flavour gone, go on and on.This is Soto practice. It is quite clear in its metaphors, don't you think? And of course, the good old Dogen with years of observation of nature from his ermitage, he has a good eye for the merging of the relative and the absolute. It is called Raihai, by the way, which means prostration.

A white heron
Hiding itself
In the snowy field,
Where even the winter grass
Cannot be seen.

To understand Dogen, ultimately, sit and practice. Tap into where he speaks, breathes and moves from. And that you are already doing.

I don't understand much to Dogen and by far I am no scholar or specialist of his work, I just found out one day that it was kind of easy and jazzy and I loved the beat, water-like, flowing already everywhere. For years the damn thing resisted my every attempt to open the shell. I just found out that what he is talking about is my very life. Not far to go. Round the corner so to speak. Something like that.

When you write : I feel...This is where I would use a word of caution. Action, raw, direct, is totally done without the feeling element. Don't just feel: bow. I would say, your action and what you do is perfect and then you add a tiny bit to it, and it is still perfect but with an accessory, something that doesn't belong. Just bow. Allow the bowing without adding the feeling bit.

if you find yourself bowing out of no reason, don't resist it

This is the closest. The most intimate. Because no reason does not necessarily relate to the feeling space. It could be the no thinking, the no thing...

A real good way to put it and helpful to all osf us.


I need to sleep now. Thank you for your teaching-being.

gassho


Taigu

[Myoku]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Thank you, everybody involved, this thread transformed from something I barely noticed to something touching me deeply,
_()_
Peter

[Seiryu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Peter, I couldn't agree with you more.

Gassho,
Seiryu

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I often like to think of one teaching of my good old teacher Chodo: the miror principle. What you see in others is nothing but you. And it works very well between you and me! :lol: :wink: What I call authority in you I often call my f....... arrogance. Must be a scholar scar of some sort...
Anyway thank you for your patience and willingness to learn and sit and bow and listen.

I know what you mean. :lol: :wink: Thank you.

You are French, you are supposed to be arrogant! :wink:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs[/video]]

Sometimes I get the impression that you are judging your self quite hard? Maybe too hard? You live and breathe compassion. Maybe there could be more love and compassion towards yourself? I think few people would describe you as an arrogant person. At least it's not the impression I get from your posts and videos.

Thank you for teaching, this thread is a gem.

Deep bow,

/Pontus

[Heisoku]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I always enjoy the moment the head touches the floor.
Not complete but part of the completeness.
I and earth.

[Hoyu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

[pontus wrote:]You are French, you are supposed to be arrogant! :wink:

Hey now play fair I'm a
Frenchman too!

Gassho,
John

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

I'm a Frenchman too!

Well, nobody's perfect! :wink: :lol:
Here's one to cheer you up! :twisted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS7f6ByrE3c[/video]]

/Pontus

[Hoyu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

[Seiryu wrote]...but...after all that bowing... Six pack abs :wink:

If Zen is truely everything(and nothing), as I've heard, why not make it sit ups For happiness :wink:
108 crunches would surely do the trick for that six pack of abs!

Gassho,
John

[Hoyu]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Hahaha thank you Pontus. :lol:
At least it can't be said that Frenchmen don't have a sense of humor!

Gassho,
John

[Yugen]

Re: 108 Bows for Happiness

Peter,
You are right, this has turned into quite a great thread/topic. And I was terrible at math!

Taigu's remarks regarding Dogen really hit home with me - my practice has really evolved towards "just sitting." I bow and touch my forehead to the floor before and after each thirty-minute session. Simplicity is elegant and beautiful and encompasses the universe... For a few months I sat with a Tibetan Buddhist sangha - wonderful, sincere people. This time allowed me to reflect on my own practice. We would meet for two or so hours at a time, and between the chanting, purifications, discussion, and readings, we often would only have time for one twenty-minute sitting. I just want to sit... or "just sit..." I still visit once per month, but do not want to take my practice too far in that direction.

Thank you all for the perspectives we have touched upon here.

Gassho,
Yugen