Restraint

[disastermouse]

Re: Restraint

It has affected how I am.

That's great! Not everyone can say that. Most people aren't even aware that they need improvement. They just dump blame on everyone else. Be thankful that there is change.

As for the little tantrums I've had here, they ARE part of my real personality

Bullshit. You don't know your real personality. The tantrums are a result of your real personality getting bullied by an inflated ego. You want release and can't find a way out. So you attack. It's normal. But it's also insane. It's what we are all doing.

The only thing I'm really thankful about regarding this is that it thankfully does seem to be diminishing with time and practice.

That in itself should give you some relief. It shows you that it isn't real. Anything real doesn't come and go. And you say this is diminishing with time and practice. So what is left? Your real personality. Not the tantrums. Not the confusion. Just a simple awareness. Look Chet! You say you are aware of the tantrums...and of things getting better...and...but what counts is the fact that you are aware. Just be that. That is the eye of the storm. Nothing can shake it.

gassho
Greg

Thanks Greg! A word of caution though - sectioning off parts of our personality or behavior that we don't like as 'not really us' can be problematic - in that it can foster an internal war that doesn't really work - at least not in my experience. Sometimes just a change in perspective changes things. I'm not as stressed by work lately because (I suspect) I'm now heavily engaged in paying down debt - so it doesn't feel as much like I'm stuck and hence I don't resent the crazily dysfunctional aspects of my job as much as I used to.

*gassho*

Chet

[Ankai]

Re: Restraint

I was responding to ghop's statement that he only puts out a small part of who he really is here. I think a lot of 'who I really am' comes across here. I wasn't trying to defend the behavior.

That's apparent... I wasn't suggesting you were.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Restraint

It has affected how I am. I haven't been suicidal in years. I haven't had a full borderline break in years either.

Have you been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder?
The people I have met with this diagnose have naturally and slowly become much better during their twenties.
So, if you have, I'm pretty sure that in ten years you will be a much more balanced person, with or without Zazen. Take refuge in this.
I suspect Zen practice may speed up the process though, as a positive side-effect. So if I were you I wouldn't worry too much, continue to do your best like you're doing now, accept who you are and what you have to work with and sit Zazen every day regardless of whether you feel like it or not.

Gassho,
Pontus

[chessie]

Re: Restraint

I've enjoyed this thread on anger. I keep thinking of one aspect, and forgive me if I'm off base here. Like others here I grew up with a parent (Mom) who was extremely volatile. She holds in feelings, and then at any moment, any tiny thing will set off this volcanic tirade. I was terrified of her. I finally learned to accept it and deal with her anger, but it took a long time. I still get the same fear feeling when any one is angry with me for any reason--if my dear husband gets mad, I start shaking. My boss, some thing. Not as bad as it used to be, but still there.
My anti-response was to try my best to NEVER get angry, and NEVER do something knowingly that will upset anyone around me, which leads to it's own set of stuff. I studied music for decades, but could never get beyond a certain level because I played like a robot--no real emotion came through the cello or the bow.

I don't know if people dealing with anger know about the fear response in others, and I'm pretty sure that in the heat of the moment it may not even matter.

Just my thoughts that won't go away until written.

Gassho, Ann

[Ankai]

Re: Restraint

Just happened to think of this... I guess sometimes my thoroughly Western upbringing does come in handy. There's a line in the Book of Psalms I learned years back that actually fits pretty well both with this discussion and with the Dharma as we're discussing it. (Wisdom is wisdom, regardless of its source or brand name, right?)
Psalm 37:8- "Cease from anger, and forsake wrath. Fret not thyself in any wise to do evil."
Basically, anger is fine... it's an emotion, as real as any other strong emotion. It's what we do with it that matters, and clinging to it is a choice, nothing more.

[ghop]

Re: Restraint

Basically, anger is fine... it's an emotion, as real as any other strong emotion. It's what we do with it that matters, and clinging to it is a choice, nothing more.

Thanks for this KvonNJ.

Thanks Greg! A word of caution though - sectioning off parts of our personality or behavior that we don't like as 'not really us' can be problematic - in that it can foster an internal war that doesn't really work

I agree. I don't mean denying certain parts of our personality as real in the moment. We just need to see that they have no ultimate reality, no lasting value. In other words, like KvonNJ pointed out above, we can just let go whenever we are ready. It's up to us.

Don't feel alone. You are a puzzle made of many parts. "Chet" is made up of Chet's parents, Chet's circumstances, Chet's environment, Chet's thoughts and emotions, of earth, sky, water, fire, etc.
There is alot of support all around you that perhaps you are not even aware of. When you are getting
swept away with emotion just feel how solid and good the earth is under your feet. It ain't going
anywhere. Feel how spacious the sky is above your head. And beat us up if you have to. We're
your family. We can take the blows. Just do whatever you have to do to find peace. Or, I guess
I should say, realize peace. Because it is already here.

gassho
Greg

[Nindo]

Re: Restraint

Just wanted to thank Christopher, Karl and Ann for your posts. Anger and rage have hurt my family very much. I am trying to stop this chain of violence (any acting out is violence, even if you don't hit anybody), but I do fall into the same patterns as my father used to every now and then. Karl's definition of rage was very helpful for me. Ann's words about fear resonate with me very much, as I was terrified of my Dad for such a long time ; but I also realize that I create fear in my partner with my own outbursts. And Christopher, you stated the root of the problem in very clear words: "It is my responsibility to ensure that what is right is being followed by the people around me." Spot on diagnosis of what's going on. Thank you all.

[disastermouse]

Re: Restraint

It has affected how I am. I haven't been suicidal in years. I haven't had a full borderline break in years either.

Have you been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder?
The people I have met with this diagnose have naturally and slowly become much better during their twenties.
So, if you have, I'm pretty sure that in ten years you will be a much more balanced person, with or without Zazen. Take refuge in this.
I suspect Zen practice may speed up the process though, as a positive side-effect. So if I were you I wouldn't worry too much, continue to do your best like you're doing now, accept who you are and what you have to work with and sit Zazen every day regardless of whether you feel like it or not.

Gassho,
Pontus

Yes, I've been diagnosed. Yes I know it gets better with age but zazen-type meditation is an integral part of one of the primary treatment methods for it. One of my therapists said that it was probably a rather large factor in mediating the effects of the disorder during my earlier life.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Restraint

Yes, I've been diagnosed. Yes I know it gets better with age but zazen-type meditation is an integral part of one of the primary treatment methods for it. One of my therapists said that it was probably a rather large factor in mediating the effects of the disorder during my earlier life.

Ah, OK. Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you are or have been in contact with therapists that you have trust in. With 'zazen-type meditation' I'm guessing they mean mindfulness training, which has seen a big renaissance in late years both in somatic medicine and psychiatry. The being in the present moment and not judging is supposed to have a positive effect on everything from high blood pressure to schizophrenia. It is not my field of expertise though and you probably know much more about it than I do! But I do think you should sit every day and maybe not not think so much about why or how? Just do it.

Thanks both Chet and all the rest for a very good thread, about life (Zen).

Gassho,
Pontus

[disastermouse]

Re: Restraint

Yes, I've been diagnosed. Yes I know it gets better with age but zazen-type meditation is an integral part of one of the primary treatment methods for it. One of my therapists said that it was probably a rather large factor in mediating the effects of the disorder during my earlier life.

Ah, OK. Thank you for sharing. I'm glad you are or have been in contact with therapists that you have trust in. With 'zazen-type meditation' I'm guessing they mean mindfulness training, which has seen a big renaissance in late years both in somatic medicine and psychiatry. The being in the present moment and not judging is supposed to have a positive effect on everything from high blood pressure to schizophrenia. It is not my field of expertise though and you probably know much more about it than I do! But I do think you should sit every day and maybe not not think so much about why or how? Just do it.

Thanks both Chet and all the rest for a very good thread, about life (Zen).

Gassho,
Pontus

Marsha Linehan developed DBT, one of the most successful treatments for BPD - she's a 30-year Zen student.

Of course, I didn't even know I had BPD when I began sitting zazen. I'm thinking about maybe posting a 're-introduction' thread so that I can sort of explain that although I'm still 'difficult' - I've come a long way from where I started.

Chet

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Restraint

Marsha Linehan developed DBT, one of the most successful treatments for BPD - she's a 30-year Zen student.

Ah! I didn't know. Thank you, I will look into it some more!

/Pontus