Zen Cliché

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Zen Cliché

Genjokoan = The Matter at Hand
Law of the Universe? I'm not so sure. Seems a bit too concrete for this world of ours.

I too feel that nature, order, principle or something like that would be more suitable, but law is probably the most 'correct' translation. It may still be interpreted in different ways. I'm going to get 'Realizing Genjokoan' by Okumura Roshi and after reading that I hope I will have a better understanding.

This is from the beginning of the Genjokoan chapter in the Cross/Nishijima translation of Shobogenzo:

Translator’s Note: Genj? means “realized,” and k?an is an abbreviation of
kofu-no-antoku, which was a notice board on which a new law was announced
to the public in ancient China. So k?an expresses a law, or a universal principle.
In the Sh?b?genz?, genj?-k?an means the realized law of the universe,
that is, Dharma or the real universe itself. The fundamental basis of Buddhism
is belief in this real universe, and in Genj?-k?an Master D?gen preaches to
us the realized Dharma, or the real universe itself. When the seventy-five–chapter
edition of the Sh?b?genz? was compiled, this chapter was placed first,
and from this fact we can recognize its importance.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Taigu]

Re: Zen Cliché

Hi Pontus,


Somehow you write something that goes...

(...)after reading that I hope I will have a better understanding.

Genjokoan is but your very life, and as much as I like this book, it doesn't give anybody a better understanding. From an intellectual point of view, maybe. But you know very well we are not dealing with that kind of understanding. Why not going for another slice (is it a slice?!!!) of " I don't know"?

But Your are right Pontus, it is a wonderful book...

gassho


Taigu

[Myoku]

Re: Zen Cliché

Genjokoan is but your very life, and as much as I like this book, it doesn't give anybody a better understanding.

So, respectfully, why do we study it then ?
_()_
Peter

[Taigu]

Re: Zen Cliché

Ok, Peter. we may undesrtand with our head, or we may understand with our body-mind.
Zen books are misleading sometimes, if they take you to life life and cushion, great! Most of them take us nowhere.
The guy that wrote this book is one of the most amazingly simple Zen teacher living. I bow to him.
I was challenging Pontus idea: you pick up a book and it might give you a better picture.

Sorry guys, doesn't work like that.

But thank you anyway. You know what I am talking about...And you are very patient too.

gassho


Taigu

[disastermouse]

Re: Zen Cliché

Pontus,

I wasn't trying to pick nits - I'm reading Rorty and it's maybe influencing me more than Dogen. Correction is appreciated.

Chet

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Zen Cliché

But thank you anyway. You know what I am talking about...And you are very patient too.

Thank you Taigu Sensei,
Yes, I know what you are talking about. And thank you for being patient with us! :lol:

I was going to say that by reading the book, I meant I was going to get a better understanding of what the word or phrase 'Genjokoan' means, a better understanding of what Dogen meant by that title, a better understanding of whether or not Zen, according to Dogen, can provide any claim of truth. But was that what I meant when I wrote the post? Probably not... :shock: As you say, I wrote the way I did, because deep inside it was maybe a better understanding of the true nature of reality that I hoped for! :wink:

Having said that, I believe Dogen Zenji was one of the greatest Zen teachers of all time, especially in our Soto Zen tradition, and that his teachings can be of great help in finding our own way. And I believe Okumura Roshi represents a very honest and pure (simple as you say) view of Soto Zen practice (in the tradition of Sawaki Roshi and Uchiyama Roshi) that really speaks to me, and that he has a thorough understanding of Dogen and the Shobogenzo after spending much of his life studying and translating it. So I believe Dogen may be of help in my practice and that Okumura may help me decipher Dogen's teachings, but I also understand that I, myself, must do the understanding, find my own truth (or realize I don't need a truth) and that Zazen is my most venerable teacher.

But I know you know what I'm talking about... :wink:
I'll try to remember to serve myself a large slice of "I don't know" whenever I can!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Taigu]

Re: Zen Cliché

That' s it, Pontus.
Thanks for your kind post.
Enjoy this great book.

gassho

Taigu