eyes

[Taigu]

Re: eyes

Yes Dosho, I would still recommand you sit with eyes open. You mention a problem of balance, did you have your eyes checked? But, unless, there is nothing wrong on a physical level, eyes should remain open. Soften your gaze, don't fix and experiment. A lot of our pratcice is to experiment.

gassho


Taigu

[Dosho]

Re: eyes

Yes Dosho, I would still recommand you sit with eyes open. You mention a problem of balance, did you have your eyes checked? But, unless, there is nothing wrong on a physical level, eyes should remain open. Soften your gaze, don't fix and experiment. A lot of our pratcice is to experiment.

Taigu,

I've had my eyes checked every other year and glasses prescribed since I was 3 (astigmatism), but that time is soon so I will mention it to the doctor. Eyes open is very difficult for me, but I am sure there are many reasons beyond my discomfort to practice in such a manner. Thank you sensei.

Gassho,
Dosho

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: eyes

When I started sitting with my eyes open, it took me about a month of daily sitting to get more or less used to it. I still close my eyes when doing the Insta-Zazen(TM) in a crowded place, but on the Zafu, I now prefer to keep my eyes open. As Taigu Sensei says, there's more to deal with with the eyes closed (even in my limited experience) and I still miss those powerful images and feelings I got back then. Which means losing them was a good idea!

Gassho,
/Pontus

[Dokan]

Re: eyes

While sitting this morning I began to focus on the Buddha's feet in front of me. Realizing this I 'glossed over' my gaze and made it somehow more hazy, whereby the weight of the universe pressed down on my lids and forced them shut. Still awake (although admittedly teetering on the brink of dozing off, as 5am is meant for sleeping), I began to hear my wife's voice on her conference call, my daughter coughing upstairs in her bed, birds outside, the coffee pot hissing, cars outside heading to work and a clock upstairs. So in the end, I suppose it seems that either way, open or shut, my mind finds focal points. Not fighting them either way seems to be the best way to calm the waters of my mind.

Gassho,

Shawn

[Shokai]

Re: eyes

The waters of my mind gives meaning to " go with the flow"

[Onshin]

Re: eyes

Many years ago I was taught that if you close your eyes it is like setting up the minds projection screen ready for all the lovely daydreams and wanderings of the mind. Open, only reality can get in.

How true this may be I do not know, I do know that if I try to meditate with eyes shut, I fall asleep ops:

[Dosho]

Re: eyes

Many years ago I was taught that if you close your eyes it is like setting up the minds projection screen ready for all the lovely daydreams and wanderings of the mind. Open, only reality can get in.

How true this may be I do not know, I do know that if I try to meditate with eyes shut, I fall asleep ops:

That's why I asked Taigu about it since I tend to daydream and doze off only when my eyes are open!

[Hoyu]

Re: eyes

Im an Eyes relaxed and slightly open kind of guy. An interesting thing Brad Warner mentioned when asked about the focus of the eyes during Zazen was how he would put a pencil dot on the wall and stare at it. This helps me also, because If i don't i find that a 30 minute sitting of unfixed gaze can lead to bLuRRy vision for a while after.
Thanks for the question.

Gassho,
John

[Jundo]

Re: eyes

Im an Eyes relaxed and slightly open kind of guy. An interesting thing Brad Warner mentioned when asked about the focus of the eyes during Zazen was how he would put a pencil dot on the wall and stare at it. This helps me also, because If i don't i find that a 30 minute sitting of unfixed gaze can lead to bLuRRy vision for a while after.
Thanks for the question.

Gassho,
John

Well, as I say when this subject comes up, I personally am not staring fixedly at a "point" or a dot ... nor am I staring so unfocused that my eyes go blurry. I describe it as "staring at everything and nothing in particular". My eyes take in the room quiet naturally, but I do not latch onto anything particular I am seeing. "Staring wide eyed into space" may be a good description. Maybe it just wander from point to point to point quite naturally.

I do not see particular harm in staring at a fixed dot the whole time, except that it is a little unnatural.

Gassho, J

[Taigu]

Re: eyes

Totally with Jundo on that one. Fixing the gaze? I explained here and there, over and over again, having this gaze on the distant mountains which is the way the martial guys use their eyes.

gassho

Taigu

[disastermouse]

Re: eyes

I sit with what I assumed was the universal Zazen 'half-lidded' eyes. Very occasionally when I have a distracting tic in my eyes (I get them from time to time - usually quite rarely), then I may sit close-lidded - or I may not.

I'm actually shocked at how many people admit to sitting zazen with closed eyes.

Chet

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: eyes

I do not see particular harm in staring at a fixed dot the whole time, except that it is a little unnatural.

I get minor visual hallucinations when I do that, so I avoid it.
Instead I just try to relax the gaze and then leave the eyes to themselves, not paying any attention to what they are doing. Sometimes I don't succeed in releasing the grasp (letting go of the control over the eyes) and then it helps to literally visualize the distant mountains Taigu Sensei are talking about, to give the eyes a feeling for what they are supposed to be doing instead of drawing attention to themselves by constantly focusing and defocusing! :evil: :lol:

And sure, after I have spent 30 minutes with unfocused eyes, sometimes they get into the habit of doing that after sitting too. If I try to read a book immediately after Zazen I may have to refocus a few times! :wink: I wonder if Zazen with unfocused eyes helps with nearsightedness? :shock: :? :?:

Gassho,
Pontus

[disastermouse]

Re: eyes

I do not see particular harm in staring at a fixed dot the whole time, except that it is a little unnatural.

I get minor visual hallucinations when I do that, so I avoid it.
Instead I just try to relax the gaze and then leave the eyes to themselves, not paying any attention to what they are doing. Sometimes I don't succeed in releasing the grasp (letting go of the control over the eyes) and then it helps to literally visualize the distant mountains Taigu Sensei are talking about, to give the eyes a feeling for what they are supposed to be doing instead of drawing attention to themselves by constantly focusing and defocusing! :evil: :lol:

And sure, after I have spent 30 minutes with unfocused eyes, sometimes they get into the habit of doing that after sitting too. If I try to read a book immediately after Zazen I may have to refocus a few times! :wink: I wonder if Zazen with unfocused eyes helps with nearsightedness? :shock: :? :?:

Gassho,
Pontus

It's funny you mention that...I sit with unfocused eyes and things are quite blurry for me for about 5 minutes after getting up if I've been sitting for 20 minutes or more.

Chet

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: eyes

I sit with unfocused eyes and things are quite blurry for me for about 5 minutes after getting up if I've been sitting for 20 minutes or more.

Interesting!
Blurry like you lose focus on what you are looking at? Blurry even if you force your eyes to focus? Blurry when you look at something far away? Blurry when you look at nearby items? Do your eyes feel tired, dry or anything like that?

/Pontus

[disastermouse]

Re: eyes

I sit with unfocused eyes and things are quite blurry for me for about 5 minutes after getting up if I've been sitting for 20 minutes or more.

Interesting!
Blurry like you lose focus on what you are looking at? Blurry even if you force your eyes to focus? Blurry when you look at something far away? Blurry when you look at nearby items? Do your eyes feel tired, dry or anything like that?

/Pontus

I can't easily read for awhile. I've tried sitting with glasses and without - it doesn't make a difference. It only lasts a few minutes.