Meditation is pointless...

[murasaki]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

I didn't mean for my previous post to sound so definitively dismissive of various states of calm and/or kensho.

I was trying to express my experience as one of coming to Zen with the idea of having that as THE goal of meditation, and right away being told that that's not what zazen is "for" -- these are difficult things to grasp for a newbie, and it had me confused and conflicted for a long time.

Jinho, if everyone you've ever talked to has attained these states from their zazen, then I congratulate them! It doesn't seem to come as easily for me. I am still learning, please bear with me.

Gassho
Julia

[Rich]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

I don't believe that anyone is perfectly enlightened. We are totally imperfect. So we keep practicing and trying to do the best we can. Its more of a process and paying attention to it is sometimes difficult. The calm is in the eye of the storm and its pointless because its always moving.

[Taigu]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

Hi Jinho,


I think what Julia meant is that there is a big difference between what you expect to find-realize-get and what you end up with in the process. Sawaki Kodo used to decribe Zazen as a way to loose everything.

gassho


Taigu

[disastermouse]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

Hi Jinho,


I think what Julia meant is that there is a big difference between what you expect to find-realize-get and what you end up with in the process. Sawaki Kodo used to decribe Zazen as a way to loose everything.

gassho


Taigu

Yes, you lose everything. We are acquisitive by ego-nature, but zen is (IMHO) a path of letting so much go. Maybe all of us are still a bit heavy with the unnecessary (me especially).

Thank you, Taigu!

(Also, sorry to Julia for being so difficult with you in the past)

Hagen is good at communicating that zazen is not just a bigger, prettier chain to carry. When we sit together, we invite one another to put down our chains - not put on prettier chains. I'm very resistant to Dharma names, rituals, and suspicious of teachers. This is also a heavy egoic chain.

*gassho*

[Rich]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

Hi Jinho,


I think what Julia meant is that there is a big difference between what you expect to find-realize-get and what you end up with in the process. Sawaki Kodo used to decribe Zazen as a way to loose everything.

gassho


Taigu

Yes, you lose everything. We are acquisitive by ego-nature, but zen is (IMHO) a path of letting so much go. Maybe all of us are still a bit heavy with the unnecessary (me especially).

Thank you, Taigu!

(Also, sorry to Julia for being so difficult with you in the past)

Hagen is good at communicating that zazen is not just a bigger, prettier chain to carry. When we sit together, we invite one another to put down our chains - not put on prettier chains. I'm very resistant to Dharma names, rituals, and suspicious of teachers. This is also a heavy egoic chain.

*gassho*

after loosing everything for a moment or even if 'still a bit heavy with the unnecessary (me especially)' this is a good song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KtScrqtbc[/video]]

[Rich]

Re: Meditation is pointless...

for my brothers and sisters