Fire!!

[Janne H]

Not sure if it was Dogen or some other Zen guy who said that one should sit like the head is on fire.

Anyway I don´t really know how to relate to that, any thoughts on that?

And also when I sit I often (sometimes just in a few minutes) end up sitting really relaxed in most muscles, just the spine holding the posture, breathing getting really slow, and the mind quieting down. In other words something of a samadhi (or deep absorption) experience. Is it a good thing to be able to easily quiet down in sitting? Or do I miss the mark of shikantaza through going for that stillness of relaxed sitting.

Hope you understand (it´s a bit late and I´m of to sleep).

Janne

[Taylor]

Re: Fire!!

I mean if it happens it happens! Sometimes easily calmed sometimes a raging storm. Just notice both and let both go. I've had that happen at every sitting for several days and then suddenly WHAM! Back to the storm. I think the point is to take life as it comes, not striving for that state, only aiming for awareness.

Gassho,
Taylor (Myoken)

[ghop]

Re: Fire!!

Not sure if it was Dogen or some other Zen guy who said that one should sit like the head is on fire.

Dunno about this...but I often sit with heartburn.

And hemmoroids. ops:

Is it a good thing to be able to easily quiet down in sitting?

Yes. Even better when standing.

Or do I miss the mark of shikantaza through going for that stillness of relaxed sitting.

Well, I think the point of "just sitting" isn't in the "sitting" but in the "just."

Just sitting...just walking...just driving...just working...just this...and this...and this...

Don't add anything to the experience of this moment.

If it is still, good. If it is chaos, good.

This, to me, is just...well, just.

gassho
Greg

[Taigu]

Re: Fire!!

The guy with the head on fire is to describe how important practice is now, it is a matter of life and death and we should not procrastinate.

Shikantaza is really big, you know. Don't worry about what you experience. Of course, it is OK to also quiet dowm and have a real calm mind ( one doesn't have always to experience a stormy sitting). Whatever comes, dont cling to it.

gassho


Taigu

[ghop]

Re: Fire!!

Whatever comes, dont cling to it.

Of course, this is just "flowery poetics."

Too bad I didn't have this advice twentysomething years ago...

I might not have put so much fertilizer on my suffering...

AND that of others...

this forum...so simple...so boring...so...

gassho
Greg

[Jundo]

Re: Fire!!

Ditto to what everyone said.

I take this "practice as if your head were on fire" to mean in sitting ... washing dishes, working a job and being a parent, living ... be diligent and sincere and energetic ... all while still, at ease, no place in need of getting.

Actually, not so different from typical advice in a building fire ... don't panic, don't run, don't clog up the exits. Instead, diligently yet quietly, energeticly yet without panic ... move forward and make one's escape. (If actually your head is one fire, perhaps roll around a bit and pat it out. :shock: In an emergency, earthquake, air crash or the like, neither panic and run around hysterical yelling "what do I do?" ... nor freeze like a deer in the headlights. )

As to Samadhi of deep absorption, feeling relaxed ... what everyone said. To quote Taylor ...

I mean if it happens it happens! Sometimes easily calmed sometimes a raging storm. Just notice both and let both go.

Also (although see your doctor at some point 8) ) practice with the Samadhi of Heartburn and Hemmoroids.

To quote Bro. Taigu:

The guy with the head on fire is to describe how important practice is now, it is a matter of life and death and we should not procrastinate.

Shikantaza is really big, you know. Don't worry about what you experience. Of course, it is OK to also quiet dowm and have a real calm mind ( one doesn't have always to experience a stormy sitting). Whatever comes, dont cling to it.

Gassho, J

PS - Completely as a side note, but just somehow connects. I just rewatched the wonderful film "Man on Wire" about the tightrope walker, Philippe Petit, who spent most of an hour on a wire, dancing, between the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center many years ago. Very much recommended. I think he moves like someone whose "hair is on fire", life and death the great matter, wind blowing across him and wire shaking below him ... yet thoroughly still, at ease, step by step, goalless. Goalless trip to no where and the Other Side, yet what a project to get it accomplished! I had to wonder too if some of the folks, in the final moments of the collapse of those burning buildings, found the inner calm and peace in chaos to make it down the stairways, be a fireman charging up the stairs to do a job, or to leap from a window when there was no other escape ... I think so ... I hope so.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Fire!!

This is the translation by Tanahashi (The Zazengi: Rules for Zazen):

"Do not desire to become a buddha; let sitting or lying down drop away. Be moderate in eating and drinking. Be mindful of the passing of time, and engage yourself in zazen as though saving your head form fire. On Mount Huangmei the Fifth Ancestor practiced zazen to the exclusion of all other activities."

As I understand it, he is telling us not to waste our time and be mindful in all activities. He is also telling us that Zazen is the most important part of our practice.

Gassho
/Pontus

[Janne H]

Re: Fire!!

Thanks for pointers and reminders. I think your post was simple and clear, Taylor:

I mean if it happens it happens! Sometimes easily calmed sometimes a raging storm. Just notice both and let both go. I've had that happen at every sitting for several days and then suddenly WHAM! Back to the storm. I think the point is to take life as it comes, not striving for that state, only aiming for awareness.

Greg,

Don't add anything to the experience of this moment.

Sometimes it´s hard to see if one is adding, trying to reach for something. In this case relaxation.

Pontus,

thanks for finding the "saving your head from fire" line, from the Zazengi.

This is the translation by Tanahashi (The Zazengi: Rules for Zazen):

"Do not desire to become a buddha; let sitting or lying down drop away. Be moderate in eating and drinking. Be mindful of the passing of time, and engage yourself in zazen as though saving your head form fire. On Mount Huangmei the Fifth Ancestor practiced zazen to the exclusion of all other activities."

As I understand it, he is telling us not to waste our time and be mindful in all activities. He is also telling us that Zazen is the most important part of our practice.

I´m not sure everyone here would agree with "be mindful in all activities", some might consider it as extra, and I´ll just leave it there.

Jundo,

I´ve seen the movie, was great.

Janne

EDIT: left out a remark.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Fire!!

Yes, maybe 'all activities' was an exaggeration... According to Jundo there's also a time for watching sports and scratching ones balls, without necessarily doing it mindfully... :mrgreen:

I see it as a pep talk, an inspirational talk aimed at encouraging the lazy monks to focus on their sitting!

Gassho,
Pontus

[Jundo]

Re: Fire!!

Yes, maybe 'all activities' was an exaggeration... According to Jundo there's also a time for watching sports and scratching ones balls, without necessarily doing it mindfully... :mrgreen:

Yes, I am sure that even the Buddha and Master Dogen would take an afternoon off for a movie, or a little "personal time" each day to read a cheap novel or knit or play poker and joke around with 'the boys' ... or whatever the equivalent of ages past ... without having to be "mindful" or "one with the moment" about it all. And if they didn't ... well, they should have and let their hair down a bit (whatever hair they had)!

Most of life can just be life ... ordinary.

There are times for intense practice, times to check oneself into a monastery for a morning to night 2-week Sesshin (don't get me wrong, that is important and not to be missed) ... but also times to take two weeks nursing a relative in the hospital, painting the house, working on a big project in the office, just camping or at the beach without making it a "Great Spiritual Experience" ... times to sit Zazen, times to just sit behind the wheel of the bus or in the dentist's waiting room thumbing a magazine ... times to eat formal Oryoki, times to just go through the "drive-thru". There are times to sit as if "one's head were on fire", times to just fetch water and chop firewood for the winter, times just to stoke the fires in the BBQ ... time to be a monk, times to just be a father, mother, husband, friend ... busy or lazy guy. I do not think that it is necessary to turn one's daily life, 24/7 into a monastic experience ... although there is a time for monastic or intensive training too.**

** (I often say that, sometimes, we need to practice a bit long and hard, morning to night ... sitting and wrestling with 'me, my self and I' ... all to achieve nothing to attain! Going to Retreats, Sesshin and such is a powerful facet of this Practice)


But most of life can just be life ... ordinary. Most of the Zen and other Buddhist priests I have met, when I have traveled from Japan to Tibet ... seem to spend the majority of their time just taking care of daily affairs or sitting around ... like everyone. Remember, that for most of these folks "monk" is their day job, fellow monks their "family" ... their lives are surprising;y not so different from anyone else ... even if they dress differently!

This practice creeps into one's bones in such a way that ... although one may not think "I will right now think of this going to the dentist/working in the office/dealing with a child's tantrum as 'Formal 'ractice'" ... our Practice is there, naturally, just part of us. And, yes, sometimes we do turn "dealing with a root canal or child's fit" into "PRACTICE!"

There are times to be "in the moment" ... times to just watch TV.

It is all life, all the universe, all time and space, all sacred and wondrous ... even if just ordinary.

Everything in moderation ... a time and place for everything, even formal practice. A time to be unassuming and ... just live.

Oh, and you are also allowed to scratch oneself 'down there' during Zazen on a hot day. (Just offer a small Gassho before and after, try not to disturb the folks sitting on either side, return to sitting.) ops:

Gassho, J

[Saijun]

Re: Fire!!

There are times for intense practice, times to check oneself into a monastery for a morning to night 2-week Sesshin (don't get me wrong, that is important and not to be missed) ... but also times to take two weeks nursing a relative in the hospital, painting the house, working on a big project in the office, just camping or at the beach without making it a "Great Spiritual Experience" ... times to sit Zazen, times to just sit behind the wheel of the bus or in the dentist's waiting room thumbing a magazine ... times to eat formal Oryoki, times to just go through the "drive-thru". There are times to sit as if "one's head were on fire", times to just fetch water and chop firewood for the winter, times just to stoke the fires in the BBQ ... time to be a monk, times to just be a father, mother, husband, friend ... busy or lazy guy. I do not think that it is necessary to turn one's daily life, 24/7 into a monastic experience ... although there is a time for monastic or intensive training too.

Hello Jundo,

Thank you for this. This is, for me, the most profound and deeply touching paragraph I've read on this website since I've been here.

In Gassho,

Saijun