What happened to this place?

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  • Yugen

    #61
    Re: What happened to this place?

    I have been following this thread and would like to thank Chet and all for offering their comments. The discussion here has really caused me to reflect on the nature of my practice and the extent to which I participate in online discussion threads (very little)... I tend to lurk, and refrain from commenting because one of my challenges and "learning goals" is to listen rather than broadcast. I used to teach at the university level and really loved the attention and the sound of my voice and realised how much I was missing out on the opportunity to be educated, and benefit from the experience and perspectives of my "students." It is not a popular thing in the academy (and a Tier One research institution) to walk into a classroom and tell your students that "we are all here to learn from one another - teacher included - and that the teacher/student demarcation is often an arbitrary one.

    So - a few observations from my perspective and based only upon my experience alone:

    - I am a firm believer in the "hand grenade rolling around on the floor" school of provocation - provocation in the sense of encouraging people to think out of the box by making statements that challenge one's comfort zone or way of viewing the world - of course this must be done within the bounds of decorum and propriety. In this sense I value and respect Chet's approach and presence. We need to be challenged and stirred from our comfort zones. On the flip side, a simple question comes to mind as a rule of thumb for me: [i]do I spend more time reading and commenting on posts than I do sitting?[/i] This is a personal statement that applies to me alone - your experience may be very different. For years I read all about Buddhist philosophy, history, etc. and sat very little by comparison. I was not practicing - I was posturing. In the last six-eight months my cushion time has increased exponentially, and my reading decreased by similar factors. One day I will stop oscillating and find balance.

    - No one else can practice for me and my practice is my own. Reading and commenting on discussion threads often helps illuminate / give perspective to my own journey and lessens the isolation I feel. Where however is the line between practice and the online sangha as an online social opportunity (sangha facebook?) that more resembles intellectual posturing or coffee house chatter? Further, at what point do those who post at length remind me of students and teachers like myself who love the sound of their own voices and skew the practice far too much in the direction of thinking instead of just sitting? Of course, if we "just sat" there would not be much in the way of lively discussion here. Obviously there is a matter of balance. And I do realize that there are many who struggle with sitting and come to this forum to find encouragement and support (I have been one of them). But posting is not sitting, and I wonder if it is practice. Is it ancillary to our practice?

    - To change direction a bit - I am a firm believer in challenging our teachers, just as they would challenge us. To blindly accept a hierarchical and non-questioning environment is not consistent with the direction where Western (and specifically American) Zen Buddhist practice is headed. I sat for a bit with a local sangha where the practice leader emphasized that we were all friends and colleagues practicing together but began making pronouncements more like a stern teacher. I stopped sitting with that group.

    I would argue that we all know what it is we each need. A lot of the discussion here in a general sense is directed towards self-affirmation and recognition. Don't get me wrong - I feel very close to many of you - we have never spoken, we have never met in person - at the end of some very tough days I "tune in" and listen to what you have to say and your voices are reassuring beacons. But let's do be very honest with ourselves about why we come here. Our practice would benefit immeasurably.

    A very deep Gassho,
    Alex

    Comment

    • Omoi Otoshi
      Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 801

      #62
      Re: What happened to this place?

      I'm home with the one-year-old, so I can only sit when he's asleep, but I agree with what you say. Forums can be a distraction, something you use to keep your mind occupied, especially when you're trying following several forums and blogs at the same time. I have now finished reading all my easy-to-read books and had planned to dig into Mysterious Realist, Shobogenzo, the sutras etc, but with an active toddler to take care of, that just isn't realistic for the time being. So I was thinking, maybe I should just do what I'm supposed to do, spend time with and take care of the kid! :shock: :mrgreen:

      Gassho,
      Pontus
      In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
      you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
      now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
      the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

      Comment

      • Jundo
        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
        • Apr 2006
        • 40679

        #63
        Re: What happened to this place?

        Originally posted by Omoi Otoshi
        I'm home with the one-year-old, so I can only sit when he's asleep, but I agree with what you say. Forums can be a distraction, something you use to keep your mind occupied, especially when you're trying following several forums and blogs at the same time. I have now finished reading all my easy-to-read books and had planned to dig into Mysterious Realist, Shobogenzo, the sutras etc, but with an active toddler to take care of, that just isn't realistic for the time being. So I was thinking, maybe I should just do what I'm supposed to do, spend time with and take care of the kid! :shock: :mrgreen:

        Gassho,
        Pontus
        It is really quite simple ...

        The Middle Way, everything in moderation, discussing this and that in this place too. But just keep sitting.

        Gassho, J
        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

        Comment

        • Omoi Otoshi
          Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 801

          #64
          Re: What happened to this place?

          Originally posted by Jundo
          It is really quite simple ...

          The Middle Way, everything in moderation, discussing this and that in this place too. But just keep sitting.
          Thank you Jundo Sensei!
          Simple in theory, but it's hard to let go of old habits. I'm a person who has a tendency to to things wholeheartedly for a while, burn myself up completely in the effort and then quit. But I hope this is not the case with Zen practice. I have after all returned to practice after a long, long break and I feel the Way has actually found me this time. So yes, no matter what the rest of my practice looks like, I will continue to live by the precepts and sit Zazen. I will probably manage to read Mysterious Realist in the evenings when the son is asleep, albeit a little more slowly than I'm used to. I'm also playing with the idea of increasing my sitting to two times a day, but I will probably wait a bit longer.

          Originally posted by Taigu
          the idea is that I met people who were doing everything so well and so diligently...just to stop a couple of years down the line. It is important to cultivate a very quiet, steady, ordinary way. To let practice make the ordinary shine and reveal the ground of this extraordinary practice as nothing special.
          Gassho,
          Pontus
          In a spring outside time, flowers bloom on a withered tree;
          you ride a jade elephant backwards, chasing the winged dragon-deer;
          now as you hide far beyond innumerable peaks--
          the white moon, a cool breeze, the dawn of a fortunate day

          Comment

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