Cogitating

[Ryumon]

I was just listening to a talk by Jack Kornfield, as I lay in the sun for a while this morning. He was talking about grasping. He mentioned the six sense reactions, the 52 something-or-others, the eight this-and-thats. Then I turned off my iPod and thought for a minute.

When I've read books about Zen, or listened to Zen talks, I haven't heard this kind of enumeration, analysis, etc. Is the difference between this and Zen - or at least some kinds of Zen - that instead of analyzing all this consciously, we try to simply sit and let the conclusions come into our subconscious? (That's the way I think it is, but I would not mind being corrected if I am wrong.) It seems that by simply sitting, letting thoughts arise and fade away, without going into the complex ritual of labeling that some traditions use, our minds may discover the same things. Is that the Zen outlook on all this?

Best,

Kirk

[paige]

Hi Kirk,

I think reciting lists of a certain number of things might be more of a memory aid. The Tipitaka (Pali canon) uses a lot of enumerations, lists and repetition. Like, why does the Buddha say "O, good man!" so much? :? Makes a lot more sense when I thought about the scriptures as oral transmissions rather than - well, scriptures.

[Jundo]

Hey Kirk,

I might say (amending the message I sent you earlier) to your question ...

Is the difference between this and Zen - or at least some kinds of Zen - that instead of analyzing all this consciously, we try to simply sit and let the conclusions come into our subconscious? (That's the way I think it is, but I would not mind being corrected if I am wrong.) It seems that by simply sitting, letting thoughts arise and fade away, without going into the complex ritual of labeling that some traditions use, our minds may discover the same things. Is that the Zen outlook on all this?

Yes and/or the categories and stages, many question and their "answers", lose relevance. I think.

Gassho, J