Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

[Rich]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

The author mentions at one point an intention to visit Japan and see if zen suits his way of thinking, but life got in his way--he ended up marrying a fellow monastic from a Korean school and the two of them moved back to England (where he was originally from) to teach there. But through so much of the book, I find myself wondering how he ever missed Japanese zen--so much of the book is his whittling away the mystic, religious trappings and supernatural claims to get at the core of what the Buddha thought and taught...and he seems to be arriving at a place that's completely consistent with Jundo's and Nishijima-roshi's book "A Heart to Heart Chat on Buddhism." Hopefully I'm not being too unfair to the author--it's quite obvious that he's forgotten far more about Buddhism than I'll ever know, so who am I to wonder about what this guy's missed and what he hasn't? LOL Also, I'm writing this without having actually finished the book yet--I'm just about 2/3 of the way through so far.

Well he did spend quite a few years in a Korean Zen monastery which is close to Chinese Zen which is where Dogen learned his thing. So I would think he has some solid zen experience.
/Rich

[kfrance0]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

Jundo--

And if anything that they tell you is different from something Taigu and I tell you ...

... well, just listen to us, of course! 8)

Okay, you guys got dibs. :wink:


Kevin--

You might be interested in the podcast/transcription of an interview with Stephen Batchelor here: http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/06/bg ... t-atheist/ Enjoy!

Thanks, I'll give it a listen!

[kfrance0]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

The author mentions at one point an intention to visit Japan and see if zen suits his way of thinking, but life got in his way--he ended up marrying a fellow monastic from a Korean school and the two of them moved back to England (where he was originally from) to teach there. But through so much of the book, I find myself wondering how he ever missed Japanese zen--so much of the book is his whittling away the mystic, religious trappings and supernatural claims to get at the core of what the Buddha thought and taught...and he seems to be arriving at a place that's completely consistent with Jundo's and Nishijima-roshi's book "A Heart to Heart Chat on Buddhism." Hopefully I'm not being too unfair to the author--it's quite obvious that he's forgotten far more about Buddhism than I'll ever know, so who am I to wonder about what this guy's missed and what he hasn't? LOL Also, I'm writing this without having actually finished the book yet--I'm just about 2/3 of the way through so far.

Well he did spend quite a few years in a Korean Zen monastery which is close to Chinese Zen which is where Dogen learned his thing. So I would think he has some solid zen experience.
/Rich

Yes, that's where he met his wife. He seems to spend little time talking about the Korean monastery, at least in comparison to the Tibetian material. The chapter I just finished described a schism within the Tibetian sangha--the Dalai Lama on one side and one of his teachers on the other. The schism was largely about the worship or honoring of one particular Tibetian god. After explaining the whole issue and describing some of the events that happened because of it (including a pretty brutal triple murder), the author ended the chapter by essentially saying he just can't deal with all these gods and demons and spirits any more...

[roky]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

like everything, no simple answer here -- unless you need one, in which case perhaps its best to focus on one approach -- but where some confusion may arise is that i've been focusing on 1 approach for years, but within several schools, and i feel that i see a commonality that rings true within all 3 major schools -- for example, here's a quote:

"When we talk of the way of awareness we do not mean that awareness is one thing and the way is another, or that there is a technique for applying awareness to life. Awareness itself is the doing, the practice, the action – there is no technique for being aware..."

hmmmmmm -- sounds pretty "zen" to me -- its actually from my first teacher, about 1975, a theravadan monk from thailand, a teacher of a practice that might loosely be described as "vipassana" -- yes, thats the same vipassana that i've had a scholarly zen monk tell me was all about "labeling" :!: -- well, it itsn't, at least not in this case – and this could just as well be a quote from a teacher in the dzogchen school of tibetan buddhism

if you want to find teachers in any of the schools who are teaching a very specific approach, you will find them -- some will insist on the uniqueness, or even superiority of their way -- well, we all want to feel special, no? -- and going from this type of teacher to another can be very confusing -- and if you are subconsciously sabotaging yourself, you can postpone settling down to work forever, while you try to "make up your mind", hopping from one to another, like those folks with the 400 tv stations(i tried one of those in a motel once: still nothing worth watching)

my respect to those who see it otherwise, but the teachers who "ring true" to me are all saying the same thing -- no uniqueness whatsoever -- yes, for some of them i have to edit out a lot of their extra stuff, i mean, they do have egos -- but the core teaching is the same, they're simply observing and reporting on our true nature -- if, like steve hagen says, its "Truth", how could it be otherwise, since by definition it is universal -- the teaching isn't in one specific technique, sometimes its zen, sometimes lsd, sometimes ? -- as joseph goldstein said, it is "one dharma"

but just so as to not confuse anyone new to this whole thing, "checking out" one school or the other requires a fair investment of time/effort, and is done by solely focusing on that approach -- teachers like stephen batchelor, who was quoted before, jon kabat-zin, or two who i've had contact with, larry rosenburg and myoshin kelley, spent years in one approach before moving on to another -- it is not helpful to be simultaneously dabbling in multiple approaches

gassho, roky

[Daibh]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

Still following this thread and still glad to have posed the question.

Most interesting answers!

Cheers everyone!

Hope you and yours are all fine and well!

[Seiryu]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

Interesting topic, and an important one at that. '

Staying solely with one practice, vs. trying many different practices certainly have their pros and cons. but one problem that 'can' come up with staying with only one practice indefinably is; that it can become like putting blinders over your eyes. you can only see things through your practice, and in the perspective on your own practice. I know of/ and here a lot about people who practice so intensely on one thing that it blinds them from looking at anything else. these people tend to become like "if its not Buddhist(or anything else), I don't want to know about it."

But trying many different things can become confusing and overwhelming and may lead to people just giving up all together.

So in the end one really has to pay attention to themselves and their state of mind. it is like going to the kitchen for a midnight snack. you have to pay attention to how hungry you are otherwise you might over eat or under eat.

All practice is good, but not all practice is good for everyone.

Gassho

Rafael

[Jinyu]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

To be honest on this subject,
I do read a lot of texts and commentaries from other traditions, I also I've been in retreats in different traditions... And I was a kind of spiritual materialist for years!
When "at ease" in one practice, it doesn't mean not having any challenges and difficulties in our practice, when we don't try to grasp like a vacuum any kind of spiritual/intellectual knowledge that passes by.

When this kind of playful and more open practice take place, I still find useful and agreable to look at sacred text from other traditions... what are other traditions really... I can point to dozens of passages of the Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Vippassana, ... traditions with all their different and fresh tastes, and they all seem to express the same reality that couldn't be expressed. All the same open and luminous awareness... And when we don't try to pin, to fix these beautiful texts in any kind of way, we can appreciate their simple and open bright experience... and that is priceless and has nothing to do with spiritual materialism!

But at the very moment I lose the playful and open way, at the moment concepts of knowledge and intellectual meanings appear, When we try to "see" more than the text gives us, these precious teachings are nothing more than words and concepts.

It's a shame that it is so difficult to just practice what we practice. To just read what we read and fully experience what we experience. So easy to get caught in endless questioning!

Don't get me wrong doubt is beautiful! But "resting in I don't know" is far more difficult than "resting in I want to know"...
Sorry I'm a bit out of the subject again! :lol:
Have a nice practice everyone!
gassho,
Jinyu

[Seiryu]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

As long as we do not start to think that one practice or school is better than another. All is Buddhism, whether it is Buddhist or not. All lead to the same path, the only different comes whether you are walking on one or not.


Gassho

Seiry?

[Jundo]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

As long as we do not start to think that one practice or school is better than another. All is Buddhism, whether it is Buddhist or not. All lead to the same path, the only different comes whether you are walking on one or not.


Gassho

Seiry?

Many Paths up the Mountain, and many different ways for many different climbers. Anyway, what destination? What Mountain?

Yet, some paths go in circles, some lead right off a cliff. Beware!

Gassho, Jundo

[Seiryu]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

As long as we do not start to think that one practice or school is better than another. All is Buddhism, whether it is Buddhist or not. All lead to the same path, the only different comes whether you are walking on one or not.


Gassho

Seiry?

Many Paths up the Mountain, and many different ways for many different climbers. Anyway, what destination? What Mountain?

Yet, some paths go in circles, some lead right off a cliff. Beware!

Gassho, Jundo

But hopefully one is watching their footing... :wink:

Gassho

Seiry?

[Ankai]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

In my limited experience, sometimes studying another tradition can bring your own into focus. I'm reading the Eight Gates of Zen by Loori Roshi this week, and their practice seems starkly different than shikantaza.

It's very different, but I've gotten a tremendous ammount of wisdom from Daido Roshi. I've also found tremendous insights into my life and practice in "The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying" by sogyal Rinpoche, which, despite Dzogchen's similarity to Zen, is still firmly rooted in the Tantric practice of Vajrayana. I find a lot of brilliance in the Western/Abrahamic faiths and their offshoots as well. I guess what I'm saying is simply don't throw away genuine wisdom just because you don't like the brand name.

[Taylor]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

To be honest on this subject,
I do read a lot of texts and commentaries from other traditions, I also I've been in retreats in different traditions... And I was a kind of spiritual materialist for years!
When "at ease" in one practice, it doesn't mean not having any challenges and difficulties in our practice, when we don't try to grasp like a vacuum any kind of spiritual/intellectual knowledge that passes by.

When this kind of playful and more open practice take place, I still find useful and agreable to look at sacred text from other traditions... what are other traditions really... I can point to dozens of passages of the Dzogchen, Mahamudra, Vippassana, ... traditions with all their different and fresh tastes, and they all seem to express the same reality that couldn't be expressed. All the same open and luminous awareness... And when we don't try to pin, to fix these beautiful texts in any kind of way, we can appreciate their simple and open bright experience... and that is priceless and has nothing to do with spiritual materialism!

But at the very moment I lose the playful and open way, at the moment concepts of knowledge and intellectual meanings appear, When we try to "see" more than the text gives us, these precious teachings are nothing more than words and concepts.

It's a shame that it is so difficult to just practice what we practice. To just read what we read and fully experience what we experience. So easy to get caught in endless questioning!

Don't get me wrong doubt is beautiful! But "resting in I don't know" is far more difficult than "resting in I want to know"...
Sorry I'm a bit out of the subject again! :lol:
Have a nice practice everyone!
gassho,
Jinyu

Right on! This rings very true to me. I am working on being less "This way is only this way, that way is only that". Occasionally I will still slip into it, thinking that only Soto applies to Soto, Seon to Seon, Rinzai to Rinzai. I'm trying to read more and feel more of what I read rather than placing it in its Rinzai, Thein, or Tibetan Box. Obviously there are differences in form and focus, but eh.

All the splitting takes away from the luminosity, and sometimes I feel that I need to step away from Dogen, Uchiyama, Suzuki, et. al for a book or two and take a look from a different angle. Keeps me on my toes!

Gassho,
Taylor (Myoken)

[Seiryu]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

All practices is essentially the same, all practice essentially leads to the same goal; to have a happy more compassionate life. But the philosophies are very different. This difference is there because there are many different types of people. What works for one,won't work for another. And all because a practice worked for you once doesn't mean it is always going to work in every instance. I think exploring other practices, and even other religions can be good. It's a good reminder that despite all the outside difference, we are all trying to do the same thing...

Just my thoughts....

Gassho

Seiryu

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

I asked about this once before, and Stephanie and Taigu had some words that helped sort things out for me, so perhaps reading their responses from earlier might help......

http://www.treeleaf.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2374

[Khalil Bodhi]

Re: Teachings Practices from other Schools / Traditions

I hope you won't mind me resurrecting an old thread. I have been faithfully sitting shikantaza and will continue to learn more about the tradition as time goes on but I still practice metta and anapanasati each morning and do puja in the Theravada style. I don't foresee me letting go of these at present but would be interested to know what, if any, the drawbacks may be of practicing in this way. Metta to all!

Mike