Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

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  • AlanLa
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 1405

    Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

    My parents are in for a visit and I violated the no intoxication precept with them last night, lol, and part of that was remembering Pastor Hal, who was a great friend to the family that recently passed away. Pastor Hal was a Lutheran pastor that spent many an hour with me during some of my darkest hours growing up, a great guy, a great listener, totally willing to wrestle with the Big Questions of life and being ok with not having all the answers. He reminds me a lot of Jundo, actually. When I questioned religion Pastor Hal said "ok." When I left off being a Lutheran he would have said "that's to bad, but ok." No pressure, and I loved him for that, very much. It occurs to me this morning that he was my first great spiritual teacher. I honestly can't imagine being where I am now, a Buddhist, without him. Strange, huh. Thinking of him I realize that Jundo would be my only other great spiritual teacher. So I've been lucky enough to have two great spiritual teachers which is quite the life double treasure. So I thought a thread of where people could post who their great spiritual teachers are would be nice, so here I am, remembering Pastor Hal, and wondering what other pastor hal type folk others have had in their lives. Honor them here.
    AL (Jigen) in:
    Faith/Trust
    Courage/Love
    Awareness/Action!

    I sat today
  • Risho
    Member
    • May 2010
    • 3179

    #2
    Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

    In my past, I've had many great teachers. One of them was my philosophy professor in college, who always taught us to mix our vocation with our advocation, and gave me different perspectives on Christianity. My most recent great, spiritual teacher is also Jundo. There is a way in which he teaches that really speaks to me, and things I've struggled with over the past few months I'm starting to get now.

    There are many others that I cannot think of right now, but I will post them when I remember them.

    Gassho,

    Cyril
    Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

    Comment

    • Taylor
      Member
      • May 2010
      • 388

      #3
      Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

      My first Buddhist teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim, who gave me refuge vows and encouraged me to read read read on Buddhism to try to grasp the philosophy. Held my hand through ups and downs in the Tibetan tradition and was kind enough to let go when I needed to leave. Many bows to him. My personal Roshi of a girlfriend, who, really, rivals Dogen sometimes in her logic and reasoning and gets me out of the clouds.

      Ikkyu and Ryokan are my teachers long passed. Dogen shows me the way to sit, to hold myself, and the significance of this and that (granted, my reading is limited, but what isn't?). But Ikkyu and Ryokan show how beauty is found even in sorrow, peace among turmoil, humanity among the idealistic notions of teachers. I like to think that I'd speak with Dogen for questions on philosophy, but share a hut and some tea (or sake, really) with Ikkyu and Ryokan just to taste the taste.

      Gassho
      Taylor
      Gassho,
      Myoken
      [url:r05q3pze]http://staresatwalls.blogspot.com/[/url:r05q3pze]

      Comment

      • Hogo
        Member
        • Feb 2010
        • 497

        #4
        Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

        Life, the universe, and everything.

        Thanks ~ Dave.

        Comment

        • Risho
          Member
          • May 2010
          • 3179

          #5
          Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

          Originally posted by Taylor
          My first Buddhist teacher, Khenpo Tsultrim, who gave me refuge vows and encouraged me to read read read on Buddhism to try to grasp the philosophy. Held my hand through ups and downs in the Tibetan tradition and was kind enough to let go when I needed to leave. Many bows to him. My personal Roshi of a girlfriend, who, really, rivals Dogen sometimes in her logic and reasoning and gets me out of the clouds.

          Ikkyu and Ryokan are my teachers long passed. Dogen shows me the way to sit, to hold myself, and the significance of this and that (granted, my reading is limited, but what isn't?). But Ikkyu and Ryokan show how beauty is found even in sorrow, peace among turmoil, humanity among the idealistic notions of teachers. I like to think that I'd speak with Dogen for questions on philosophy, but share a hut and some tea (or sake, really) with Ikkyu and Ryokan just to taste the taste.

          Gassho
          Taylor
          Good perspective... I was thinking much more directly, but this is true as well. In a sense, the entire lineage of realized Zen practitioners could be said to be our teachers in Zen.
          Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

          Comment

          • Rob_Heathen
            Member
            • May 2010
            • 79

            #6
            Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

            Originally posted by cyril
            Originally posted by Taylor
            ...
            Ikkyu and Ryokan are my teachers long passed. Dogen shows me the way to sit, to hold myself, and the significance of this and that (granted, my reading is limited, but what isn't?). But Ikkyu and Ryokan show how beauty is found even in sorrow, peace among turmoil, humanity among the idealistic notions of teachers. I like to think that I'd speak with Dogen for questions on philosophy, but share a hut and some tea (or sake, really) with Ikkyu and Ryokan just to taste the taste.

            Gassho
            Taylor
            Good perspective... I was thinking much more directly, but this is true as well. In a sense, the entire lineage of realized Zen practitioners could be said to be our teachers in Zen.
            I must say, I get a little weary when I hear people talk about their teachers being writers. Yes, I understand the concept of transmission and lineage and all that jazz. However, they are simply writers and all you really know of them is a book. They are the equivalent of characters in a Stephen King novel, only Dogen had something to say worth reading... I learn every day from the books I read and love them dearly but to use the term teacher in this context I feel is a little wonky to say the least.

            Example: I have read the Satanic Bible and honestly, I loved it. There are some parts of it that are seriously delusional and there are parts that are shear genius. I say again, I loved it and learned a lot from it. Anton LaVey is in no way a teacher of mine. But I am also not a Satanist so I guess maybe that is why...

            Maybe I have no room for comparison to what my idea of a teacher is. I have never had a "spiritual teacher" of any sort. Agreed, probably a large part of my "spiritual problems." I continually see Jundo as more and more my "teacher" every day. Especially when we speak. I have the utmost respect for him and am growing into that student roll all the time. I think there will be a time very soon where we would most definitely accept each other in that student/teacher relationship. That sort of relationship be it online or face to face, can never equate to words in a book, in my opinion. Just my two cents, not sure if Mr. Gotama would consider this right and useful speech, figure I'd throw it out there anyhow.

            Gassho,

            Rob.
            [u:146m4fwx][i:146m4fwx][b:146m4fwx]"Do No Harm."[/b:146m4fwx][/i:146m4fwx][/u:146m4fwx]

            Comment

            • Risho
              Member
              • May 2010
              • 3179

              #7
              Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

              Originally posted by Rob_Heathen
              Originally posted by cyril
              Originally posted by Taylor
              ...
              Ikkyu and Ryokan are my teachers long passed. Dogen shows me the way to sit, to hold myself, and the significance of this and that (granted, my reading is limited, but what isn't?). But Ikkyu and Ryokan show how beauty is found even in sorrow, peace among turmoil, humanity among the idealistic notions of teachers. I like to think that I'd speak with Dogen for questions on philosophy, but share a hut and some tea (or sake, really) with Ikkyu and Ryokan just to taste the taste.

              Gassho
              Taylor
              Good perspective... I was thinking much more directly, but this is true as well. In a sense, the entire lineage of realized Zen practitioners could be said to be our teachers in Zen.
              I must say, I get a little weary when I hear people talk about their teachers being writers. Yes, I understand the concept of transmission and lineage and all that jazz. However, they are simply writers and all you really know of them is a book. They are the equivalent of characters in a Stephen King novel, only Dogen had something to say worth reading... I learn every day from the books I read and love them dearly but to use the term teacher in this context I feel is a little wonky to say the least.

              Example: I have read the Satanic Bible and honestly, I loved it. There are some parts of it that are seriously delusional and there are parts that are shear genius. I say again, I loved it and learned a lot from it. Anton LaVey is in no way a teacher of mine. But I am also not a Satanist so I guess maybe that is why...

              Maybe I have no room for comparison to what my idea of a teacher is. I have never had a "spiritual teacher" of any sort. Agreed, probably a large part of my "spiritual problems." I continually see Jundo as more and more my "teacher" every day. Especially when we speak. I have the utmost respect for him and am growing into that student roll all the time. I think there will be a time very soon where we would most definitely accept each other in that student/teacher relationship. That sort of relationship be it online or face to face, can never equate to words in a book, in my opinion. Just my two cents, not sure if Mr. Gotama would consider this right and useful speech, figure I'd throw it out there anyhow.

              Gassho,

              Rob.
              I guess it comes down to what you consider a teacher. We are being taught by people and things all the time, or maybe we're teaching ourselves. I don't really know. I mean someone telling you something over a blog, in person, in written words, over Skype, via voice recording, telephone, etc... are pretty similar. I mean you still have to process those words, and based on your understanding you apply those things to your life (or not). And if you do, in a sense, those people are teaching you. That was my train of thought.

              Also, Jundo, for instance, or any other teacher learned from their teacher, and their teacher learned from their teacher... and so on up the line. So I was just saying that all of the teachers until each one of us is also our teacher, even if in an indirect way. Kind of like how Newton or Liebniz are indirectly responsible for my understanding Calculus (well I've forgotten most of it now but for argument's sake :mrgreen: ).
              Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

              Comment

              • Tb
                Member
                • Jan 2008
                • 3186

                #8
                Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                Hi.

                one of my greatest teachers is my son, Filur.
                Teaches me something every moment.

                Mtfbwy
                Fugen
                Life is our temple and its all good practice
                Blog: http://fugenblog.blogspot.com/

                Comment

                • Dosho
                  Member
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 5784

                  #9
                  Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                  Originally posted by Fugen
                  Hi.

                  one of my greatest teachers is my son, Filur.
                  Teaches me something every moment.

                  Mtfbwy
                  Fugen

                  You beat me to it Fugen...to my sons...you are my greatest teachers and always will be.

                  Gassho,
                  Daddy

                  Comment

                  • Engyo
                    Member
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 356

                    #10
                    Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                    In my understanding, prior to this I have read words and heard teachings given but have had no teacher.
                    At Treeleaf, I have commited to take Jukai (its study and ceremony) with Jundo. If I do my part diligently, I will receive the Precepts (my guidelines for life, formal commitment to the Buddhist Sangha and to the Practice of Zen Buddhism), the Rakusu (representing the robe of Buddha), the Kechimyaku (a lineage chart showing all my 'new' Spiritual Ancestors) and a Dharma Name. All received through Jundo.

                    "My teacher, Nishijima Roshi, has written that one may receive Jukai at any time, including at the very start of one’s Buddhist Path …
                    When a Buddhist seeks to commence upon the study of Buddhism, there is first a ceremony which should be undertaken: It is called ‘Jukai,’ the "Receipt of the Precepts”, the ceremony in which one receives and undertakes the Precepts as a disciple of the Buddha. … Master Dogen specifically left us a chapter entitled ‘Jukai,’ in which it is strongly emphasized that, when the Buddhist believer first sets out to commence Buddhist practice ….. be it monk, be it lay person, no matter ….. the initial needed steps include the holding of the ceremony of Jukai and the undertaking of the Precepts …" - Jundo

                    From these marks and ceremony I will join the lineage of Jundo Cohen and his Spiritual Ancestors right back to Buddha. Informally, now I may say Jundo is my teacher. After the Jukai Ceremony, it becomes much more than that. In describing the Kechimyaku, my teacher Jundo Cohen has written this is more like a birth certificate. I believe him.

                    A bit traditional for some, but this understanding works for me. Your's (if different) may work for you. Who's to say?

                    Gassho,
                    Don

                    Comment

                    • Taylor
                      Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 388

                      #11
                      Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                      Originally posted by Rob_Heathen
                      Originally posted by cyril
                      Originally posted by Taylor
                      I must say, I get a little weary when I hear people talk about their teachers being writers. Yes, I understand the concept of transmission and lineage and all that jazz. However, they are simply writers and all you really know of them is a book. They are the equivalent of characters in a Stephen King novel, only Dogen had something to say worth reading... I learn every day from the books I read and love them dearly but to use the term teacher in this context I feel is a little wonky to say the least.

                      Example: I have read the Satanic Bible and honestly, I loved it. There are some parts of it that are seriously delusional and there are parts that are shear genius. I say again, I loved it and learned a lot from it. Anton LaVey is in no way a teacher of mine. But I am also not a Satanist so I guess maybe that is why...

                      Maybe I have no room for comparison to what my idea of a teacher is. I have never had a "spiritual teacher" of any sort. Agreed, probably a large part of my "spiritual problems." I continually see Jundo as more and more my "teacher" every day. Especially when we speak. I have the utmost respect for him and am growing into that student roll all the time. I think there will be a time very soon where we would most definitely accept each other in that student/teacher relationship. That sort of relationship be it online or face to face, can never equate to words in a book, in my opinion. Just my two cents, not sure if Mr. Gotama would consider this right and useful speech, figure I'd throw it out there anyhow.

                      Gassho,

                      Rob.
                      Gasshos Rob. Let me clarify. I don't mean to say that either of these poets "Speak to my (non)soul". Rather their lives serve as a small example of what this whole "Zen" thing is. We enjoy the stainless pictures of lineage members, the ideal, the epitome of what a true "person of the Way" is. Well, sure. But really, we want someone we could hang out with, I think.

                      They aren't teachers in the pure sense of the word, more so mirrors saying "HEY! YOU! LOOK AT WHO YOU ARE FOR A SECOND!" Striving for Dogen will only leave me Taylor with an identity complex. The same with Striving for Ryokan or Ikkyu. They serve as bells to bring me back to the idea that "Taylor is just Taylor enough". If that makes sense :P Maybe some clarification on my clarification?

                      Gassho
                      Taylor
                      Gassho,
                      Myoken
                      [url:r05q3pze]http://staresatwalls.blogspot.com/[/url:r05q3pze]

                      Comment

                      • Jundo
                        Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 40325

                        #12
                        Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                        Originally posted by Don
                        now I may say Jundo is my teacher.
                        I often say that I try (without having to try hard) to be a very disappointing teacher ... because in this practice life is frequently "disappointing" ... the world is frequently "disappointing" ... we frequently "disappoint" ourselves ... and if we can see through "disappointing" to how sacred it all is, then we are really on to something! 8) (I really am not just joking there). So, as a greatly disappointing teacher of great Wisdom and Compassion in disappointment, I rarely fail!

                        As a Klutz in everything from bowing to putting on my robes ... I also am a great teacher of the perfection of imperfection! ops:

                        Truly, learn from babies, trees, stones, stars, enemies and friends, the hard and easy, ringing telephones ... they are all the "teacher".
                        ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                        Comment

                        • christoph

                          #13
                          Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                          Whomever I find online that makes the most sense to me. regardless of their particular (brand) of Buddhism. Shinzen Young is amusing as well as insightful and Ajahn Bramavasamo is nevr boring to me. Alan Watts had an incredible mind as well as a sense of humour. In order for me to take a teacher seriously, he or she needs to have that ability to laugh at themselves.

                          Comment

                          • Stephanie

                            #14
                            Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                            Taylor, you are so goddam young, you make me feel old. You remind me of me at 19 :shock: Just give life a few more years to break you down :wink:

                            As for teachers... I have learned from many, the people that stand out most are people I consider friends. But really, teachers are unremarkable, they're the equivalent of the person who watches you bash your head into a brick wall for the 400th time and say, "Hey, did you notice you're hitting your head on a wall?" The incredible thing is that you didn't and that you needed someone to point that out to you ops: :lol:

                            Comment

                            • AlanLa
                              Member
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 1405

                              #15
                              Re: Who are your Spiritual Teachers?

                              Interesting posts so far. Thanks to all for that. My folks are still here and the wine still flows freely, which might be worthy of a whole other family dynamic thread :evil: But in my mind a great spiritual teacher is a live person, not a book. And I give great nods to the spiritual teaching of nature and the universe, etc.. But WHO helped you through all the great DOUBT that comes with growing up spiritually? That's what I'm curious about. It's about an person to person interaction. I loved Pastor Hal because he was willing to say he didn't know. In my darkest hours it was not knowing that made the most sense to me, and to this day I don't trust anyone that says they do know all the answers. I've been in the dark way too much to believe those folks that only talk about light. I firmly believe I benefit most from a guide that knows or is at least comfortable with both the dark and the light
                              AL (Jigen) in:
                              Faith/Trust
                              Courage/Love
                              Awareness/Action!

                              I sat today

                              Comment

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