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  • Taylor
    Member
    • May 2010
    • 388

    #31
    Re: commitment

    Just read a section from Being Upright: Zen Meditation and the Bodhisattva Precepts by Reb Anderson (Prep for Jukai, perhaps? ) that spoke about commitment. Rather long passage but it went something along the lines of this. When we set up a rigid schedule, something like what is done in monasteries, where we are responsible not only to ourselves but to our fellow sangha members and must go so far as to ask permission to miss a sitting, we learn something about ourselves. We see what gets in our way of practice; the doubts, the frustration, the greed we have for our "precious time". And then once it is out in the open, we can work with it.

    Sometimes I feel it is even harder here at Treeleaf because no one will REALLY know if you miss a sitting, aren't wearing your robe, or not chanting. It may open the way for sneaking about, excusing this, excusing that, as to why we don't and won't sit. We must be our own disciplinarians, one of the hardest things to do! But if we can do it, if we can commit to a sitting time and truly and wholeheartedly observe it, we come out farther ahead because we need no encouragement from a group who will notice if we are not there. Zazen becomes our ever watchful disciplinarian.

    When the alarm rings, awake without a second thought. When the bell rings, don the robe and sit. No matter if it is an hour early, on time, or an hour late. When the bell rings, sit.

    Gassho
    Taylor
    Gassho,
    Myoken
    [url:r05q3pze]http://staresatwalls.blogspot.com/[/url:r05q3pze]

    Comment

    • Jinyu
      Member
      • May 2009
      • 768

      #32
      Re: commitment

      Originally posted by rculver
      Takkesage (Verse of the Kesa)

      Robe of liberation boundless

      Field beyond both form and formless

      Wearing the Tathagatha's teachings

      Vowing to free all sentient beings
      Hi Ron!
      Those verses are really beautiful, the first time I heard them in a Sesshin I almost cried. And still today in Japanese, English, French or whatever... these verses still go deep in my heart!
      I'm also happy for you that you sit again with your rakusu, the kesa and zazen are the two sides of a beautiful thing... To keep sitting and wearing the rakusu daily can be seen as a kind of duty sometimes... but they are such an amazing gift for our life!
      Sorry I'm totally out of the subject :?

      gassho to everyone,
      Jinyu
      Jinyu aka Luis aka Silly guy from Brussels

      Comment

      • CraigfromAz
        Member
        • May 2010
        • 94

        #33
        Re: commitment

        Originally posted by Taylor
        Sometimes I feel it is even harder here at Treeleaf because no one will REALLY know if you miss a sitting, aren't wearing your robe, or not chanting. It may open the way for sneaking about, excusing this, excusing that, as to why we don't and won't sit. We must be our own disciplinarians, one of the hardest things to do!
        What does self-discipline mean from a Zen perspective? A lot of my past self-discipline has been goal oriented - I will not miss a workout because I want to win such and such race, I will work overtime to get the next promotion, etc. This seems very far from the Buddhist way. Why do we sit in the first place? It should not be to attain anything, because that is not the way. But the transition to the Buddhist mindset does not happen overnight, and deep inside I still believe I sit because I desire the effect it has on me. Not sure how to get out of this dillema - I just sit every day with confidence that it is the right thing to do. I am a newbie, though, and only speak from a few months experience.

        Craig

        Comment

        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40992

          #34
          Re: commitment

          Originally posted by Taylor
          Sometimes I feel it is even harder here at Treeleaf because no one will REALLY know if you miss a sitting, aren't wearing your robe, or not chanting. It may open the way for sneaking about, excusing this, excusing that, as to why we don't and won't sit. We must be our own disciplinarians, one of the hardest things to do! But if we can do it, if we can commit to a sitting time and truly and wholeheartedly observe it, we come out farther ahead because we need no encouragement from a group who will notice if we are not there. Zazen becomes our ever watchful disciplinarian.

          When the alarm rings, awake without a second thought. When the bell rings, don the robe and sit. No matter if it is an hour early, on time, or an hour late. When the bell rings, sit.
          Thank you, Taylor, for so nicely saying this. So much of this practice is wrestling with "me, myself and I" ... and if one can do so even when nobody is looking, all the better!

          Originally posted by CraigfromAz
          What does self-discipline mean from a Zen perspective? A lot of my past self-discipline has been goal oriented - I will not miss a workout because I want to win such and such race, I will work overtime to get the next promotion, etc. This seems very far from the Buddhist way. Why do we sit in the first place? It should not be to attain anything, because that is not the way. But the transition to the Buddhist mindset does not happen overnight, and deep inside I still believe I sit because I desire the effect it has on me. Not sure how to get out of this dillema - I just sit every day with confidence that it is the right thing to do. I am a newbie, though, and only speak from a few months experience.
          This is right too ... We sit very very diligently and with sincerity, yet with no thought of gain! Practice is enlightenment itself, with no place to get to ... thus we practice ever going forward ...

          Here is something I usually say on this ...

          Shikantaza is "radical non-doing", radical goallessness, to-the-marrow non-attaining. However, it is vital to know that "radical non-doing" is worlds away from merely "sitting doing nothing, attaining nothing". I post the following description from time to time:

          So, we have to work very diligently to sit every day, and strive with great effort, all to realize that there is nothing to attain ... It is the way of effortless effort. We must aim carefully for the goalless goal!

          Being the "Buddha" all along, and having not a thing about you that is in need of change ... that does not mean you don't have some work to do to realize truly that you are the Buddha without need of change. To realize that you are never, from the outset, in need of change is a VERY BIG CHANGE! There is absolutely nothing about you and the universe (not two) to add or take away, and tasting that there is "nothing to add" is an important addition!

          And how do you realize that non-realization?

          By Just Sitting to-the-marrow, radically dropping all goals, judgments, attempts to get somewhere or to achieve some realization. That gets you somewhere, and a revolutionary realization!

          Truly understanding that everything is completely beyond need for change is a complete change, and finding that there was never a place to get to is finally getting somewhere.

          Get how that goes? :shock:

          Oh, and by the way ... even as there is not a thing about us to change ... still we have much greed, anger and ignorance, various harmful habits and ways, to change about us.
          Gassho, J
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 40992

            #35
            Re: commitment

            More on this same non-topic ...

            I was asked how Shikantaza Zazen is different from most other ways of meditation ... other styles of Zazen too ...

            If one is sitting Zazen with the intent -- in any way -- to discover some Truth, experience something special, change one's current life, attain some exotic state of mind or special wisdom, be happier or more peaceful, pierce some mystery or conundrum, solve some problem in life, understand "life and death" or the "meaning of time", taste "oneness", or accomplish some goal or purpose --in any manner, even but one of the foregoing -- ... then that is not true "Shikantaza" by definition.

            I think that one or more of the foregoing applies to most every style of meditation in some way. I think most styles of meditation pay lip service to dropping such goals and hopes ... but I think that most folks actually continue to hold such accomplishments as the "pay off" of Zazen in some manner.

            In the sitting of "Shikantaza"... one radically drops (and is dropped from) all thought of discovery, 'special' or not 'special', attainment, wish for change, opposites of happy/sad peaceful/disturbed, all desire to pierce a mystery, worry of "problems" to resolve, concepts of "life" and "death" or "time", idea of "oneness" ... all purpose to accomplish some goal. All of that is dropped clean through ... even the thought of "someone to achieve" some goal too. All fully discarded, not needed in any way.

            Of course, there's a lovely twist ... :wink:

            For in true "Shikantaza" ... living without need to discover some Truth -is precisely- Truth discovered. The foresaking of all desire for "something special" or to change one's life in some way -is- profoundly special, working a radical change in life. Giving up all hopes of attaining exotic states of mind or special wisdom ... manifests clear & illuminating states of mind ever flowing with life's changing kaleidoscope ... and thus a panoply of the Buddha's Wisdom in many shapes and colors.

            By foresaking all need for peace and happiness in one's day-to-day ... one finds the Happiness of one's day to day just-as-it-is, at home where one stands ... standing everyplace and no place in particular (a "Happiness" that does not even require one to feel "happy" all the time! ) ... and a Peace that washes away and holds all reactions to peace or disturbance (thus forsaking even the demand on life that it cause us to feel "peaceful" Now THAT's Peaceful!).

            Great mysteries are resolved when dropped from mind (like asking about "how many angels on the head of a pin"), "problems" are not "problems" when we simply stop thinking of each as "problems" (even when the "problems" still remain! ... That's very important: Zen practice won't cure your cancer, return lost loved ones or even fix a flat tire ... but may change how we refuse each). "Life" and "death" are not "life" and "death" when the human mind stops cutting "life" from "death" (same for "past" and "future", thus deconstructing "time").

            Many people run around (and around internet forums! ) claiming "enlightenment" because they have tasted, or can access, some feeling of "oneness". The seeker may have even seen for a time visions of "oneness beyond oneness beyond time or place" without even a separate see'r to do the seeing. They may know that that this world of "samsara" is like a dream. Such folks then proclaim themselves "enlightened" though they are "playing in the entranceway, still short of the vital path of emancipation.” Such persons mistake "oneness" or "oneness beyond beyond" for truly being "at one" with this life of chaos, division, both beauty and ugliness, peace and war. The error is that they want this world of samsara to feel like enlightenment (or want to constantly see the multiplicity through the eyes of "oneness" or "oneness beyond oneness"), but do not know the non-enlightenment of just allowing samsara to be samsara.

            For by allowing samsara to be samsara, all conflicts are resolved, all thoughts and divisions of "how things must be" vanish. Instantly, samsara is not merely samsara ... for the chaos, divisions, weighing of beauty and ugliness vanish too. What presents is a Peace which is at "one piece" whether there is peace and war (not an excuse not to settle the war, by the way 8) ). The infinite complexity of life is -one- with the infinite complexity of life. Greed anger and ignorance dissipate as all tension, division, and need for reward drop away. Merely by letting the world be the world, a better world results.

            In that way, the "self" is put out of a job, loses its functions, is rendered mute. For the normal work of the "self" is desiring, complaining, contrasting & dividing, wishing, regretting, remembering, anticipating, fearing etc. etc. ... Simply remove from mind-body all thoughts of desire (via faith in completeness), complaint at "how things are", contrasts and divisions, wishes, regrets, thoughts of past and future, fear ... and the "self" loses its fire and goes out. POOF!

            Then, rising from where we are endlessly sitting, we can return to a world of desires, incompleteness, contrast and divisions, wishes, regrets, past and future, sometime fears. Yet, something is different about difference ... we taste the completeness of incompleteness, divisions undivided, wishes without fundamental care of attainment or not attainment ... resisted pain that is not "suffering" because we human beings embrace and allow human resistance to the painful state.

            One is not "one" with the universe or "enlightened" ... but "at one" with this crazy universe, just-as-it-is. Up down up down ... YIPPEE! :dance: The roller coaster is just us! Then, even thought of "the ride" and "someone riding" is just a convenience.

            True "Shikantaza" ... .

            Gassho, J
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

            Comment

            • Jundo
              Treeleaf Founder and Priest
              • Apr 2006
              • 40992

              #36
              Re: commitment

              And even more ...

              Zazen is rather like a diet in which we drop all thought of loss (or gain), and see that we are always 'perfect' just at whatever weight we are. If we 'cheat' and eat a big piece of chocolate cake ... that is just what is. If we are 'good' and eat lots of carrots and celery ... that is just what is. We drop all thought of a target, any need to be or look some way other than we do. Be at one with all, just as it is ... even one's rotundness. We are always a perfect Buddha ... whether we look like this ...



              ... or like this ...



              However, we should yet strive, as we can with sincerity ... to avoid the chocolate cake and to eat more carrots with each and every meal. Eating too much chocolate cake, under the excuse that "it is all the same" or "there is no goal, nothing in need of change", is not truly dieting. (On the other hand, expecting to only eat carrots ... and never taste chocolate cake again ... may not be realistic. Our diet is the 'Middle Way' diet to a smaller middle. Our way is one of sensible "balance" in a balanced diet. It is not spiritual anorexia either!).

              What is more, this practice of dropping likes and dislikes, dropping desires ... will likely reduce one's craving for chocolate cake, and allow one to choose and be satisfied with carrots and celery more and more. One develops greater control over one's cravings through non-resistance. One drops the "need" for the cake, and learns to drop away too the stress that makes many of us head to the refrigerator. In dropping desires, one will end up dropping a few pounds.

              All that from dropping all thought of loss or gain, something to achieve or find. In doing so, one will likely achieve losing a few pounds and find a healthier way to live.

              So, in Zazen we find peace, meaning, balance, improved concentration, mindfulness, letting go of bad habits, one-with-the-universe-ness, things like that ... all by dropping all thought or need to attain peace, meaning, balance, improved concentration, mindfulness, letting go of bad habits, one-with-the-universe-ness, things like that! :shock: Truly attaining "non-attaining", and realizing to the marrow "no need for change" ... works a revolutionary change.

              However, 5 minutes of Zazen is really not enough to attain the non-attaining of a settled and balanced body-mind, any more than dieting only 1 day a week is sufficient to lose weight. We should shoot to diet 7 days a week, realizing that we may realistically cheat once or twice a week. The rules for "Insta-Zazen" state ...

              That does NOT mean, however,that we can give up “Zazen” on our sitting cushion, cross-legged or the like and facing the wall or floor. Please don’t misunderstand!

              “All of life” is Zazen — but only – seated Zazen is Zazen, too, and is indispensable. (Please remember that Zen teachers often speak out of both sides of their no-sided mouths). In other words, every moment of the day can be a chance to practice Zazen in its all encompassing meaning, but one must still sit Zazen the old fashioned way as well ...

              So, please try Jundo’s Patented Insta-Zazen © sittings throughout your day. In fact, for a limited time only, three (3) Insta-Zazens © can substitute for one (1) traditional sitting. (That is, if you’re sitting a minimum of (one) 1 or more traditional sittings each day. That’s still indispensable!)
              http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=14965

              A lot of people say "I can't diet" or "I have big bones" or "I don't have time". Find the time.

              So, having sat with this today ... I will officially say that 5 minutes of Zazen is not sufficient (Taigu, I would appreciate your weighing in on this ... pun intended). Although 5 minutes of Zazen is 5 minutes of Buddha ... and although all time and space is folded into a single tick of the clock ... ONE MUST SIT A MINIMUM OF 15 minutes per day (really 20 is better, 30 to 40 minutes even better) ONCE PER DAY (really twice is better), WITH INSTA-ZAZENS ON TOP OF THAT shooting for EACH AND EVERY DAY (realistically knowing that ... well ... ) ... and get on a bus and find a weekend retreat or Sesshin now and then ... sit with our online retreat if that is not possible ....

              http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/arch ... 09---.html

              No excuses ... find the time. Amida Buddha will not do the dieting for you, and don't wait to drop those pounds in the Pure Land (I understand you can eat all the chocolate cake you want there without gaining an ounce, and the rivers run with no-calorie milk shakes ... but that's in the next life).

              That is all.

              Gassho, Jundo
              ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Rich
                Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 2615

                #37
                Re: commitment

                Originally posted by CraigfromAz
                What does self-discipline mean from a Zen perspective?
                Craig
                I think it means just trying to be present with what is happening right now. So if you are riding your bike, it's just paying attention to riding. Coming back to just this right now over and over requires self discipline or will power. Some call it 'will to the truth'

                Originally posted by CraigfromAz
                Why do we sit in the first place? It should not be to attain anything, because that is not the way. But the transition to the Buddhist mindset does not happen overnight, and deep inside I still believe I sit because I desire the effect it has on me. Not sure how to get out of this dillema - I just sit every day with confidence that it is the right thing to do. I am a newbie, though, and only speak from a few months experience.
                Craig
                Sitting is kind of a naturally balanced state where you can practice just sitting. Instead of getting lost in your thinking, dreaming and feelings you just keep coming back to what is happening which is well 'just sitting'. Since the just being or in this case 'just sitting' is nothing special there is nothing to attain and there is no effect - its the desire or grasping that causes a problem or as you called it dillema.

                But I don't really know anything. These are just words I made up and you have to come up with your own answers.
                /Rich
                _/_
                Rich
                MUHYO
                無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

                https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

                Comment

                • Jundo
                  Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 40992

                  #38
                  Re: commitment

                  Originally posted by Rich
                  I think it means just trying to be present with what is happening right now. So if you are riding your bike, it's just paying attention to riding. Coming back to just this right now over and over requires self discipline or will power. Some call it 'will to the truth'
                  More than merely 'paying attention' to what is happening right now, or paying attention to what one is doing right in this moment ... perhaps it is better to say that we drop all barriers, judgments and resistance** to what is happening and doing/done in this moment. That is something more vital than just 'paying attention'.

                  The difference, perhaps, is just in the words. However, some folks mistakenly think that this practice is just about focusing in on one's actions one at a time.

                  Gassho, J

                  PS ** Dropping judgments and resistance even as, hand in hand, we may have judgments and resistance ... resistance without resistance.
                  ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                  Comment

                  • Taigu
                    Blue Mountain White Clouds Hermitage Priest
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 2710

                    #39
                    Re: commitment

                    Hi all,

                    Indeed, as Jundo states clearly, our practice is sitting everyday at least 20 minutes. No other option really. Topping it with insta-zazens and one or two retreats a year. This is our way. And there is no other way. That the way we cook our life.

                    gassho

                    Taigu

                    Comment

                    • Taylor
                      Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 388

                      #40
                      Re: commitment

                      Originally posted by CraigfromAz

                      What does self-discipline mean from a Zen perspective? A lot of my past self-discipline has been goal oriented - I will not miss a workout because I want to win such and such race, I will work overtime to get the next promotion, etc. This seems very far from the Buddhist way. Why do we sit in the first place? It should not be to attain anything, because that is not the way. But the transition to the Buddhist mindset does not happen overnight, and deep inside I still believe I sit because I desire the effect it has on me. Not sure how to get out of this dillema - I just sit every day with confidence that it is the right thing to do. I am a newbie, though, and only speak from a few months experience.

                      Craig
                      You and I both, Craig! Haha, newbies we shall forever be I suppose that is all why we come to Buddhism, Zen or not. We want something, some peace, some THING that validates all the sitting we do. At first we must be selfish to be selfless. We, at first, sit for ourselves, wanting something for us so we can have some peace. Then when we see that there is peace literally in every step, every moment, we wish peace for others. Then "I" and "you" suddenly become less concrete. Then we sit to sit. A process and no process. I speak with words taken from others' mouths however. I have yet to experience non-experience :roll: Best Wishes to you.

                      Gassho
                      Taylor
                      Gassho,
                      Myoken
                      [url:r05q3pze]http://staresatwalls.blogspot.com/[/url:r05q3pze]

                      Comment

                      • Rich
                        Member
                        • Apr 2009
                        • 2615

                        #41
                        Re: commitment

                        Originally posted by Jundo
                        Originally posted by Rich
                        I think it means just trying to be present with what is happening right now. So if you are riding your bike, it's just paying attention to riding. Coming back to just this right now over and over requires self discipline or will power. Some call it 'will to the truth'
                        More than merely 'paying attention' to what is happening right now, or paying attention to what one is doing right in this moment ... perhaps it is better to say that we drop all barriers, judgments and resistance** to what is happening and doing/done in this moment. That is something more vital than just 'paying attention'.

                        The difference, perhaps, is just in the words. However, some folks mistakenly think that this practice is just about focusing in on one's actions one at a time.

                        Gassho, J

                        PS ** Dropping judgments and resistance even as, hand in hand, we may have judgments and resistance ... resistance without resistance.
                        Jundo, thanks for clarifying that. It is best that we just 'put it all down' or as you say 'drop all barriers, judgments and resistance**' I'm still a work in progress and my expressions are somewhat limited
                        /Rich
                        _/_
                        Rich
                        MUHYO
                        無 (MU, Emptiness) and 氷 (HYO, Ice) ... Emptiness Ice ...

                        https://instagram.com/notmovingmind

                        Comment

                        • Jundo
                          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 40992

                          #42
                          Re: commitment

                          Originally posted by Rich
                          I'm still a work in progress and my expressions are somewhat limited
                          /Rich
                          You me and the Buddha too.
                          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

                          Comment

                          • JohnsonCM
                            Member
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 549

                            #43
                            Re: commitment

                            As Aitken Roshi relates from his teacher Yammada Roshi, 5% sincerity is enough to begin with, if you were 100% sincere from the outset you'd be enlightened.

                            Now of course that isn't to say that there is a beginning, middle, or end to this practice, but it is to say that where you are is where you are right now. With that in mind, we should strive to be more sincere with our practice everyday (myself sooooo included) with the understanding that even when we are 100% sincere, we aren't 100% complete. There were posts about being in the moment and, when riding your bike pay attention to riding your bike, etc. The way I have interpreted this concept is to "be" so completely that you drop all else. So when riding your bike, "be" riding your bike, while consciously directing it, looking out for cars, enjoying the scenery, and waiving hi to your neighbors, so completely that you drop all wants, attachments, and delusions.

                            So, if not 100% committed, you are committed to 100% of your current level of committment. Just continue to practice as you are able, while practicing to practice at a higher level of committment every day. The thing about the Buddha Dharma is that the more you live it, and work to realize it (in that ever Zen non-attaining way), the more you will find your "self" being committed to the path, and the practice sort of happens by it's self.
                            Gassho,
                            "Heitetsu"
                            Christopher
                            Sat today

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