I want to talk about

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  • will
    Member
    • Jun 2007
    • 2331
    #1

    I want to talk about

    I want to talk about judgment for a minute. It is unnecessary. I want to talk about how you see the people around you. Like there are people around you. I want to talk about what's wrong with everything, or shall I say "not wrong". I want to talk about you.The greatest thing about knowing this or that, is that you are not effected by what "that guy" or "this guy" thinks. Let them think that. I will continue picking flowers or making bread. This that or the other thing. Don't judge so much, and don't worry too much. All is all is all. We complicate things with a second of Disregard for our actual nature. That and our unknowing ways. Don't give people more reason to worry about who or what they are. However, it is not only on that side. It is also the side that says "There must be something wrong". This is goes both ways. Goes to the giver and receiver. Things are things, and as much as that may bother you, they are things.

    These are the words I write. I keep writing them. These are the days of our lives, and we keep fighting them

    Gassho
    [size=85:z6oilzbt]
    To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
    To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
    To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
    To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
    [/size:z6oilzbt]
    Tags: None
    • monkton
      Member
      • Feb 2009
      • 111
      #2
      Re: I want to talk about

      Hi Will,
      How is Dalian at the moment? We're finally getting some April rain here in Ireland and the place is greening up nicely. I read your post a few times and maybe I was reading it in the wrong way, but it seemed cryptic. I thought I'd try and work through it and then if necessary you could maybe clarify what I get wrong.

      "judgment... unnecessary...." Agree - not very productive. But where does evaluation fit in? I'm not quite sure if you are talking about dropping the discriminating mind, or advising against rushing to judge others, i.e. being judgemental.

      "I want to talk about what's wrong with everything, or shall I say "not wrong"." Well, things are as they are, as you say later: "All is all is all." So that includes anything that we might think is wrong (or not-wrong). Slippery slope this... are you in danger of making a judgemnt on 'everything'?

      "you are not effected by what "that guy" or "this guy" thinks", very true - I shouldn't be, but I frequently am. I get bugged by things that people thought about me 30 years ago. I get bugged remembering what people who are now dead thought about me. It's nuts, but welcome to my world. However, I also get encouraged by thinking back on the good things people have said or thought about me in the past, so it can be swings and roundabouts on this one. I'm trying the 'studying the self' method of just looking at how I feel about what someone has said about me i.e. not saying that I'm unaffected by things, but just looking at me being affected by them.

      "It is also the side that says "There must be something wrong". " - not sure about this bit - is it referring to the internal voice that says something is wrong (as opposed to listening to someone else saying things are wrong)?

      "Things are things, and as much as that may bother you, they are things." - not sure about this either. Are you saying that things don't matter or that they do matter?

      "These are the words I write. I keep writing them. These are the days of our lives, and we keep fighting them" - DO keep on writing them! and it's not always such a terrible struggle is it? There are these four noble truths I keep reading about...

      gassho,
      Michael

        Comment

        • will
          Member
          • Jun 2007
          • 2331
          #3
          Re: I want to talk about

          Well, this is long post and I had to sit down for this one (sometimes I stand up at the computer).

          But where does evaluation fit in?
          It does fit in.

          I'm not quite sure if you are talking about dropping the discriminating mind, or advising against rushing to judge others, i.e. being judgemental
          Yes. Most of this has to do with my practice, but I think that someone can learn from it, and use it too. What I am saying here is that there is really nothing to worry about. People are people and they will continue to be until they see fit to gain or "not gain" whatever it is that they "gain" from their practice. We are dealing with adults here, not people who haven't lived a life already. You can't force anyone to be any way. It won't happen, and that is just more ego wanting to have what it wants. It is being ok with being ok.

          are you in danger of making a judgemnt on 'everything'?
          Yes. Judgment or "self image" is a big part of practice. There is always the moment where we can say "Don't do that!", or we can watch as it's done. Judgement is Judgement. It comes and goes like everything else. Maybe some people are not easy to judge, and this does not relate to them. It is for those who are critical about one's self or other, and those who "worry too much".

          I shouldn't be, but I frequently am. I get bugged by things that people thought about me 30 years ago. I get bugged remembering what people who are now dead thought about me. It's nuts, but welcome to my world.
          Welcome to practice It is about dropping all that stuff. It doesn't matter. Does it matter whether you step out the door in the morning? Does it matter whether you can crouch or drink a glass of water? Does it matter? Thinking mind might say "YES!" Bodymind might says "DO!"

          not sure about this bit - is it referring to the internal voice that says something is wrong (as opposed to listening to someone else saying things are wrong)?
          Yes. There is no "internal voice" really, it's just a lot of thought, and failure to see the moment as it is. This has to do with body etc. balance etc.. This "internal voice" is just self image judging it's actions and etc.. Remember "there is no you". This is very true. But it's not quite what it would seem. It is just the moment or it is just action (non deliberate). It is doing something to do it.

          not sure about this either. Are you saying that things don't matter or that they do matter?
          I'm saying "Don't worry!" No matter how much you want to get rid of something, it will continue being that thing until you see through it and see it more clearly.

          it's not always such a terrible struggle is it?
          That's the point. Smile more. And if you don't feel like smiling, then don't. Don't force it, that just makes it complicated.

          Gassho
          [size=85:z6oilzbt]
          To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
          To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
          To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
          To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
          [/size:z6oilzbt]

            Comment

            • monkton
              Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 111
              #4
              Re: I want to talk about

              Hi Will,

              thank you for taking the time to go through all those questions, it's much appreciated. For me, it made the post much less daunting. My scrolling finger was getting knackered checking your comments against what was originally in the post so I decided to try and conflate them to some extent (recessions are great aren't they? :roll: ). I found that your post seemed to fall into a regular two sentence structure which made it look a bit like a poem. So here's what it ended up looking like to me - and apologies if I mangled any of your original intentions!

              gassho
              Michael


              I want to talk about judgment for a minute.
              It is unnecessary.

              I want to talk about how you see the people around you.
              Like there are people around you.

              I want to talk about what's wrong with everything, or shall I say "not wrong".
              I want to talk about you.

              The greatest thing about knowing this or that, is that you are not effected by what "that guy" or "this guy" thinks.
              Let them think that.

              I will continue picking flowers or making bread.
              (This that or the other thing.)

              Don't judge so much, and don't worry too much.
              All is all is all.

              We complicate things with a second of disregard for our actual nature.
              That and our unknowing ways.

              Don't give people more reason to worry about who or what they are.
              However, it is not only on that side. It is also the side that says "There must be something wrong".

              Remember "there is no you". It is just the moment, it is just the action.
              It is doing something to do it.

              This is goes both ways.
              Goes to the giver and receiver.

              Don't worry! Things are things, no matter how much you want to get rid of them.
              They will continue until you see through them and see them more clearly.

              Smile more. And if you don't feel like smiling, then don't.

              These are the words I write.
              I keep writing them.

              These are the days of our lives, and we keep fighting them

                Comment

                • AlanLa
                  Member
                  • Mar 2008
                  • 1405
                  #5
                  Re: I want to talk about

                  I love it when a dialog comes together like this! 8)
                  AL (Jigen) in:
                  Faith/Trust
                  Courage/Love
                  Awareness/Action!

                  I sat today

                    Comment

                    • will
                      Member
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 2331
                      #6
                      Re: I want to talk about

                      yeah, something like that.

                      Let them think that.
                      No italics here. It's more of a light phrase then emphatic. ie. Let them think that. No prob.

                      Gassho
                      [size=85:z6oilzbt]
                      To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
                      To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
                      To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
                      To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
                      [/size:z6oilzbt]

                        Comment

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