The Truth About Dogs and Cats

[will]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

now to practice a fast, breathless and erratic version of Kinhin while walking the Labrador

lol

[Stephanie]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROZNMAa-z54[/video]]This interview is very illuminating if you speak Dog :mrgreen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pheiKPZAWGA[/video]]Kaiser is also a very helpful interviewee.

[Unmon]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

both dogs in these clips yawn during their interactions with the amused humans...this is a sign of anxiety...i'm really not amused...sorry, it's not cute. i wish it was. call me extreme... non-humans exist for their own reasons. not for "our" entertainment...

[Unmon]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

...

[Jundo]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

btw, it wouldn't be cute to fuck with mentally-challenged or young humans of like mental capacities.... speciesism makes it perfectly ok...and makes me so sick.........have fun responding to my over-reaction.

gotta go sit w/ this...

I think cats are already enlightened (dogs too). They don't need all this Buddhism mucking about.

http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/arch ... ensei.html

Rocks and trees are enlightened (and enlightenment) too ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/arch ... stone.html

But needing to move around and make choices like you and me, well, that's the real test of Wisdom and Compassion. Enlightenment is easy if ya just need to sit still in the garden day after day, or decide whether to have a nap or chase a dustball across the floor.

Gassho, J

[will]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

or decide whether to have a nap or chase a dustball across the floor

Unless, of course, your wild/stray. Not all Cats/Dogs are domesticated.

Gassho

[Stephanie]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

both dogs in these clips yawn during their interactions with the amused humans...this is a sign of anxiety...i'm really not amused...sorry, it's not cute. i wish it was. call me extreme... non-humans exist for their own reasons. not for "our" entertainment...

Really?

I'm always bemused by the people like you who post comments about how people are abusing or mistreating their animals when I see no such thing at all. Dogs and humans play with each other. Sometimes dogs amuse themselves by teasing us (my sister's dog getting a pair of shoes and running because he knows he'll get chased, which he finds enormously fun), sometimes we amuse ourselves by teasing them. Just like we sometimes have fun with our friends by joking and teasing each other. Mild anxiety is a component of humor, regardless of what species.

Dogs are resilient. They will get over moments of annoyance or anxiety, just as humans do--probably more quickly, because I doubt they have the capacity to brood and hold on to things like we do.

Same for cats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxLG2wtE7TM[/video]]This will probably send you into an apoplectic rage, but it makes me laugh my ass off every single time.

[disastermouse]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

btw, it wouldn't be cute to fuck with mentally-challenged or young humans of like mental capacities.... speciesism makes it perfectly ok...and makes me so sick.........have fun responding to my over-reaction.

gotta go sit w/ this...

Not everyone is engaged in a failed attempt to be you.

'Speciesm'? Someone's taken post-modernist political correctness WAY too f'in far!

Chet

[will]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

I think everyone should read Never Cry Wolf.

_/_

[John K.]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

MU!

[will]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

Mu to you too Sensei.

Gassho

[Unmon]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

haha...

wow...actually stirred something up this time....guess it takes a strong opinion on a divisive issue sometimes.

steph, i'm not saying those dogs are being abused. just making note of something most people don't notice or care anything about. i have to admit, i was also in a bad way the day i wrote that comment. but, no, i'm certainly not going to launch into "an apologetic rage"... "people like [me]", huh? interesting...

chet, your smug comment comes as no surprise... that's what i love about your posts, btw. i'm serious about that (for the record) - not facetious in the least. please clarify the "...failed attempt at being you" thing though - i'm pretty dense (obviosly). regarding the "postmodern politically correct" thing: ..uhh, ok...if you say so. i'm sure you're not alone in that assessment - lucky you. i honestly don't have a response to that. how can i? when an opinion is maginalized using widely-accepted derogatory rhetoric, any response is simply playing defense. if you (or anyone else) would honestly be interested in discussing that term/issue without resorting to loaded sloganeering, let's start a new thread...

jundo, nice try mitigating! again, i posted hastily (which is ridiculous). not an apologetic rage, just accepting/acknowledging the role my emotions played. anyway, thanks for jumping in the way you did. always diplomatic...

gassho to all


ps, let the next round of attacks begin :twisted:

[Unmon]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

ok, a bit more on this:

jundo, tin tin may be a master in the sense that he (she?..not sure, sorry...assuming "he" as most orange tiger/tabbys are male) generally appears to reside "in the moment". unfortunately tin tin may not be said to be a master in the sense that "he" is also a slave to his genetic predisposition to domestication. and, he is also bound to his immediate desires (food, affection, etc). tin tin's "lesser" developed frontal lobe does allow him the luxury of avoiding many human-type concerns and neuroses. but, it also binds him tighter to many "primal" drives (which we're attempting to move beyond in the practice of zazen, no?)

chet (and all), my position on the treatment and status of non-human animals is definitely not PC. it is frequently dismissed as such b/c it is easly lumped in with other liberal/progressive hippy/feel-good political BS. it is quite the opposite, however. it is politically and socially very incorrect to radically challenge "our" root perception of other species. to put it another way, most people seem to readily accept that there is a clear and distinct difference between "us" (homo-sapiens) and "them" (all other species). challenging this in theory might be fun...but challenging it in any tangible real-world way is a serious threat that tends to be fought tooth and nail. takes "us" out of our "special" cosmic status or something, i guess...but it's ultimalety not accepted as the "correct" view by most standards. this is scientifically/intellectually dishonest to say the least. but it remains the prevailing view. can you tell you pushed a button here? anyway, enough of my soapbox...yikes, i totally gave in to "playing defense"...shame shame on me. "i'm only human" :wink:

again, i welcome all responses... i think this should be considered separately in a discussion under the "topics about life" section, though. i know similar topics (vegetarianism, etc) have already been discussed on these forums, so...whatever. maybe it's a boring and played-out topic too... i dunno. we can always agree to disagree as well. i'm easy.

[disastermouse]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

The dismissiveness of my post has more to do with the 'I think this is important, hence EVERYONE should think this is important' aspect. There's a distinct 'I am better/more evolved/a deeper thinker than you element to that particular tone in your response. The funny thing is that there is more anthropomorphizing going on in your stance than the common one. While it's empathetic to put yourself in the place of a non-human being, how can it not result in a bit of elevationism?

So, I'm not saying you're wrong so much as I'm pointing out the egotism in taking offense at things most particularly not said specifically to offend. There's a 'Here, let me enlighten you about what's wrong with you' sort of tone. Stephanie was not trying to offend and you sort of had to go out of your way to be offended. The best part was the Zen cliche 'I'll have to go sit with that'. Really?

You have the right to draw up your moral lines however you wish, of course - but to expect the rest of the world to care is unrealistic. You COULD generally enlighten us if you want about the specifics regarding why you drew your lines where you did - but expecting us to validate it is also unrealistic.

Chet

[Jundo]

Re: The Truth About Dogs and Cats

I asked Tin Tin about all this. He went back to sleep.