The Way

[JohnsonCM]

The Way is One.

That One encompasses Everything.

All can be boiled down to One.

It is what it is, not what you make of it.

Color a rock to look like an apple, you still can’t eat it.

Just sit with it.

When life is hard, sit hard. When life is easy, sit easy.

When life is good, sit good. When life is bad, sit bad.

All facets of the same gem. All angles of the same coin.

No matter what you do, it’s all connected.

When I want to see my reflection, I walk away from the mirror and look at the old man at the bus stop across the street, a young couple in the park, the homeless man with his hand extended. When I look in the mirror, I don’t see me anymore. Me was just a misunderstanding, anyway, a wall of glass.

The Way is Everything.

The Way is One.

What is One that contains Everything?

Perfection. Nothing much.

[Jundo]

Re: The Way

The Way is Everything.

The Way is One.

What is One that contains Everything?

Perfection. Nothing much.

What if there is no "Way"? Or a trillion trillion Ways, as many as there are things and beings in the universe, each with its own way, each going its own way?

What if "perfection" and "imperfection" are just human ideas?

There is an old Koan that has a couple of versions ...

If all things return to the 'One' (or the 'Source'), to what does the One/Source return?'

This thread may be worth a look ...

viewtopic.php?p=17147#p17147

Gassho, J

[JohnsonCM]

Re: The Way

What if there is no "Way"? Or a trillion trillion Ways, as many as there are things and beings in the universe, each with its own way, each going its own way?

What if "perfection" and "imperfection" are just human ideas?

There is an old Koan that has a couple of versions ...

If all things return to the 'One' (or the 'Source'), to what does the One/Source return?'

After reading the thread you mentioned, I have some questions, if I may?

Why then, do we call Zen “the Way”? Is it just “A Way”? Is it that there are many ways to enlightenment and Soto or Rinzai or Buddhism or the religion of the Native Americans or Shinto or Candomble or Voodoo are all just different paths to it? If that were the case, then as far as I am aware anyway, why was Shakyamuni.the only one to break free?

What I was trying to express wasn’t so much a concept of some sort of universal singular, like a God or a Logos or some such, but more along the lines that all things great and small, all people, places, and things are interconnected. Thus creating a single “organism” or “system” where all the parts, though independent, form the whole and are connected.

Also, I don’t really hold the idea of a benevolent Supreme Being, so much anymore. I certainly used to, but then I started asking, “if God were always benevolent and “Loved” his creations, why does so much bad stuff happen?” The answer has since become obvious, that’s life. That’s what it is. Why, how, when, wherefore, etc don’t really matter; and if I ever learned some Supreme Truth as to the nature of war, poverty and murder, I know that knowledge wouldn’t stop those things from happening.

I had a thought while reading that post, around the part where you talked about waking up in the boat. It reminded me of a movie I saw, Rozencrantz and Gildenstern are Dead. It’s the play Hamlet from the perspective of the above named characters, the two friends who were to escort Hamlet to the King of England to be hanged, but Hamlet switched the letter to have Rozencrantz and Gildenstern hanged. In the movie, they just appear. They don’t know who they are or where they are, nor why they are on the road they are on. It seemed to me that they were sort of at peace with things much more in the beginning then toward the end. It seemed as they learned more about themselves, and the nature of their situation, they became more unhappy and distraught. Sort of the same thing as the guy in the boat I think.

As to harmony, I rather like to think of harmony as the following definition from Webster’s Dictionary:

1. The just adaptation of parts to each other, in any system or combination of things, or in things intended to form a connected whole; such an agreement between the different parts of a design or composition as to produce unity of effect; as, the harmony of the universe. [1913 Webster]

So, when I think of being in harmony with all things or being in harmony with this life, I think of it like that. Basically, being in “agreement” or to use the vernacular, “being cool with” the way things are. Not necessarily happy, because some of life is sad, but understanding that and being in harmony with the sad as well as the glad.

I think that what I am trying to convey might be getting muddled by the limitations of having to use words. It is very difficult to bring across what I have realized in words.

So, and I really mean this as a genuine question from someone with real concern for his spiritual practice, am I utterly wrong here, or is this not Zen?
:?

[Rich]

Re: The Way

Why then, do we call Zen “the Way”? Is it just “A Way”? Is it that there are many ways to enlightenment and Soto or Rinzai or Buddhism or the religion of the Native Americans or Shinto or Candomble or Voodoo are all just different paths to it? If that were the case, then as far as I am aware anyway, why was Shakyamuni.the only one to break free?


:?

I think Zen is a 'way' to correct your views of everything as opposed to having deluded views. And sitting is a big part of the way. And it becomes a way of life all the time. From what I've read it seems non-buddhists have been enlightened but what is enlightenment? Probably beyond the realm of ideas.

[Jundo]

Re: The Way

Hi Chris,

(Before we get started, I always wax a bit more lyrical on Saturdays like this, with the first warm whiff of spring in the air. Think I will pack up Leon and head to the beach ... shame Mina can't join us this time)

I'm just in a business where, when someone comes up with a too solid image or label for some stuff, I have to knock it down to keep folks from getting stuck in limiting images, packages and judgments of some things. So, if a fellow comes (this is not what you said at all, Chris, just an example) and says something like "I am wanting to get in touch with the 'One Universal Buddha Way' because it always will tell me the right way from the wrong way to head in life, God's Plan's way, the correct answer to every test question way, the right thing to say and do in every social situation way, the 'my way or the highway way'" ... well, I encourage them to be so much more flexible and open in their approach to "The Way". (That's what so many of those old Koans are about, in which the student mouths the very same words as the teacher, but the teacher rejects the students parroting of the words, especially if merely an intellectual understanding).

From reading what you wrote though, Chris, it seems that you have already figured that out for yourself pretty much, so there was no need. Sounds to me like your way is a good way. I think especially that the following is a very good path up the mountain ...

What I was trying to express wasn’t so much a concept of some sort of universal singular, like a God or a Logos or some such, but more along the lines that all things great and small, all people, places, and things are interconnected. Thus creating a single “organism” or “system” where all the parts, though independent, form the whole and are connected.

Yes, this is Basic Buddhism 101. The single grain of sand on some distant beach is but part of the whole interconnected beach, and the whole "system" that is the ocean. In fact, it is as special and precious as every other grain of sand or salt in the sea, a jewel in its way ... "the whole universe in a grain of sand".

And if it suddenly, by some fortune, became conscious of that fact for a minute and of its own being ... what would it learn or gain from that fact?

Well, one thing, in our Zen way, is for it to realize that it should just get on with being that single grain on that somewhere beach ... and don't make a muck of it too much. It should realize that it is just as precious as anything in the whole ocean (and, in fact, is just the manifesting of the whole ocean too) ... then get on with "being this very grain of sand". If there is a "purpose to its existence", it may be the ocean's purpose and not the grains purpose at all (assuming that the tiny grain could even understand the purpose of something as vast and powerful as all the world's seas, assuming that the sea has any purpose at all but to flow and swirl).

Still, how wonderful to be here ... on this beach, on such a day as this. Don't muck it up. 8)

As to harmony, I rather like to think of harmony as the following definition from Webster’s Dictionary:

1. The just adaptation of parts to each other, in any system or combination of things, or in things intended to form a connected whole; such an agreement between the different parts of a design or composition as to produce unity of effect; as, the harmony of the universe. [1913 Webster]

So, when I think of being in harmony with all things or being in harmony with this life, I think of it like that. Basically, being in “agreement” or to use the vernacular, “being cool with” the way things are. Not necessarily happy, because some of life is sad, but understanding that and being in harmony with the sad as well as the glad.

Yes, I believe this is vital to our Way. Sand grain on the beach takes sunny days and rainy, high tide and low.

Then the grain is free ... just going with the tide! :wink:

Sounds like a very good "Way" Chris ... keep walking and wrestling with these things.

Just one thing ...

Why then, do we call Zen “the Way”? Is it just “A Way”? Is it that there are many ways to enlightenment and Soto or Rinzai or Buddhism or the religion of the Native Americans or Shinto or Candomble or Voodoo are all just different paths to it? If that were the case, then as far as I am aware anyway, why was Shakyamuni.the only one to break free?

The Buddha did not even say that he was the only Buddha, and many Sutra and such imply that there are countless Buddhas ... more than all the grains of sand of all the seas anywhere among the stars. Personally, I do not think that "my way" is the only way ... and different people might cross this mountain on many good paths (anyway, WHAT MOUNTAIN?) Certainly, all paths just go where they go, and we always are just where we are (however, some "ways" lead off a cliff and into the poison ivy.) I am just like a rented Sherpa who shows the good path I know and have walked for many years, recommending it to you as a solid one that will get you where you are not going.

Gassho, Jundo

[monkton]

Re: The Way

Just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your exchange. Earlier in the week I was was reading the end section of "Opening the Hand of Thought", and some of that chimed with what is being said here:

"We are all, without exception, universal. Only our brains get caught up in the notion that we are individual. We're universal whether we think so or not, and reality doesn't care what we think."

[I particularly like that 'reality doesn't care what we think'.]

"We are universal whether we're alive or dead. At the same time, it's also true that we cannot be separated from our individual, personal self, either, which has the karma to produce all kinds of delusion. So we can conclude that the human condition involves existing in the midst of this relationship between personal self and universal self.
In our life as personal self, universal self is not something to yearn for, it is the direction toward whch we should aim. ..."

gassho,
Michael

[Dosho]

Re: The Way

[I particularly like that 'reality doesn't care what we think'.]

Me too...thank you for that.

[JohnsonCM]

Re: The Way

I'm just in a business where, when someone comes up with a too solid image or label for some stuff, I have to knock it down to keep folks from getting stuck in limiting images, packages and judgments of some things. So, if a fellow comes (this is not what you said at all, Chris, just an example) and says something like "I am wanting to get in touch with the 'One Universal Buddha Way' because it always will tell me the right way from the wrong way to head in life, God's Plan's way, the correct answer to every test question way, the right thing to say and do in every social situation way, the 'my way or the highway way'" ... well, I encourage them to be so much more flexible and open in their approach to "The Way". (That's what so many of those old Koans are about, in which the student mouths the very same words as the teacher, but the teacher rejects the students parroting of the words, especially if merely an intellectual understanding).

That's cool. That's why I came to you in the first place. All I had was my individual practice and some books to guide me through. The books were helpful, and after years of reading and practicing as best I could, I think I came to an edge of that understanding that we talked about, but couldn't get there. That's why I needed a teacher, one I could trust to show me as much as he or she could of what they knew or felt they knew to be the most effective way of finding a way to get over that barrier. Well, still need, really. I don't know that there is ever an end to learning. The one thing that I hope is evident though, is that when ever I ask a question , or make a statement or whatever (except when I'm plainly messing around) it all comes from a place of real concern for my practice and real love of this thing we call Zen. So, if I say something wrong or something that would hamper my growth in this practice, call me out. If I start to label or create false images, knock them down.

My only request is that you don't try to spare my feelings, my practice, my growth in Zen, and the eventual goal of coming to some form of enlightenment and saving all sentient beings is what matters most to me.

BTW I hope you an Leon enjoyed the beach.

[Jundo]

Re: The Way

The one thing that I hope is evident though, is that when ever I ask a question , or make a statement or whatever (except when I'm plainly messing around) it all comes from a place of real concern for my practice and real love of this thing we call Zen. So, if I say something wrong or something that would hamper my growth in this practice, call me out. If I start to label or create false images, knock them down.

My only request is that you don't try to spare my feelings, my practice, my growth in Zen, and the eventual goal of coming to some form of enlightenment and saving all sentient beings is what matters most to me.

Yes, same here!

The beach was lovely.