Whats in a name?

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  • Shonin
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Thanks for the info , Jundo. Perhaps what I hadheard is more in a traditional/formal context that doesn't so much apply to the modern age, or maybe whomever i got that info from had no idea what they were talking about.*shrugs*

    Shonin _/_

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  • Jundo
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Originally posted by Shonin
    Question about the title "Sensei". My understanding is that it is different from the word for school teacher. A sensei is one who is either recognized and given title by another sensei ( regardless of whether it's gardening , martial arts, or anything else) or is named/accepted as such by the community. And that it is someone recognized for being above par so to speak. One who shows great skill in what they do. Also i understand it to be kinda like a teacher/master(in the sense of a master mechanic here in the US not like a slave master). But really no direct translation. Am curious to better understand the term.

    Shonin _/_
    My experience is that It is used here in Japan is just as a respectful term for any school teacher, lawyer, doctor or politician, teacher of some art or skill such as the martial arts or flower arranging. Of course, each of those persons is recognized as you describe by their respective communities, so you are right, but it is used as a polite, but fairly informal term here ... much like I might call someone "a teacher" in English in either a formal or more general way. Leon's first grade teacher is called by us "Saito Sensei" ... same for all the teachers in the elementary school, regardless of age, experience or skill as a teacher.

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  • Shonin
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Question about the title "Sensei". My understanding is that it is different from the word for school teacher. A sensei is one who is either recognized and given title by another sensei ( regardless of whether it's gardening , martial arts, or anything else) or is named/accepted as such by the community. And that it is someone recognized for being above par so to speak. One who shows great skill in what they do. Also i understand it to be kinda like a teacher/master(in the sense of a master mechanic here in the US not like a slave master). But really no direct translation. Am curious to better understand the term.

    Shonin _/_

    Leave a comment:


  • Hogo
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    The Dharma isn't limited to culture, and Eastern culture isn't all peaches and buttercups either. They each offer different strengths and dilemas...but Western dilemas aren't necessarily worse than Eastern ones just because they're different.
    Chet
    Agreed, It is a grass is always greener on the other side kinda thing, you hear stuff about other countries, but without the perspective of actually experiancing both........all the same, but different?
    Do we (Westerners, Americans, Whatever)tend to see the rest of the world and cultures through a much smaller window than we presume. I could be wrong?
    I am always facinated to hear geniune stories from visitors from other lands, but I'm pretty happy with what I got here.

    Always something new to think about here, Thanks Chet
    Dave.

    **Edit** Wrote this post before fully updating myself on the "Teachers" post this morning, it has become an interesting disscusion. Much to think on now.

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  • Dosho
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    IAMCNAT?

    That's a new one.

    Gassho,
    Dosho

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  • disastermouse
    Guest replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Originally posted by Dday
    Originally posted by disastermouse
    I find that amusing.
    Chet
    Good, just the way my comments were intended,
    A proud but not to serious way out west American.

    Gassho
    Dave.
    It's been showing up in a few threads - this one and the 'Teachers' thread. The Dharma isn't limited to culture, and Eastern culture isn't all peaches and buttercups either. They each offer different strengths and dilemas...but Western dilemas aren't necessarily worse than Eastern ones just because they're different.

    IMHO, IAMCNAT

    Chet

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  • Hogo
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Originally posted by disastermouse
    I find that amusing.
    Chet
    Good, just the way my comments were intended,
    A proud but not to serious way out west American.

    Gassho
    Dave.

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  • disastermouse
    Guest replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    What's with all the self-hating 'Westerners' here?

    Do you really think we muck it up any worse than any of the others? I find that amusing.

    Chet

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  • Jundo
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Originally posted by JohnsonCM
    What about Zenji? I hear that one a lot too.
    About 50 posts among Western Zen teachers on "Zenji" over at the AZTA really muddled this up too ... but, in a nutshell, "Zenji" is reserved for the current or former heads of Eiheiji and Sojiji Head temples. Thus, their founders, Dogen Zenji and Keizan Zenji are both "Zenji". My Dharma Grandpa (Taigu's Great Grandpa) was Abbot of Eiheiji, so he is referred to as Renpo Niwa Zenji.

    Eiheiji and Sojiji, for historical reasons, are both the "Vatican" of the Soto Shu church in Japan ... and spent about 700 years really tussling and competing (in a non-violent way) about which would be top dog. Finally, it was decided that they would basically share the honors, and abbots from each would take turns being the figurehead (because that is really all it is, a ceremonial head) of Soto Shu. (By the way, "Shu" basically means "school" or sect)

    The AZTA discussion made it clear that there are some other usages for "Zenji" in certain Lineages that can just mean "Zen fellow", but that uses a different Chinese character from the "Pope" Zenji ... so don't confuse your "Zenji" with your "Zenji". :shock:

    Gassho, Just Jundo

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  • Shohei
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Originally posted by JohnsonCM
    What about Zenji? I hear that one a lot too.


    Personally, I was going to start refering to Jundo as Juan Sanchez Villa Lobos Ramirez, Cheif Metalurgist to King Charles the Fifth of Spain.

    Sorry, that was the longest name / title from a movie I could think of. 10 karma points to whoever can tell me which movie....... :lol:
    -110 karma points for me... but Highlander? I was thinking Monte Python skit for sure!

    Gassho
    Google.ca

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  • JohnsonCM
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    What about Zenji? I hear that one a lot too.


    Personally, I was going to start refering to Jundo as Juan Sanchez Villa Lobos Ramirez, Cheif Metalurgist to King Charles the Fifth of Spain.

    Sorry, that was the longest name / title from a movie I could think of. 10 karma points to whoever can tell me which movie....... :lol:

    Leave a comment:


  • Hogo
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    Oh Cap'n my Cap'n Thank you for bestowing this great pearl of Knowl......................... Nah that don't work.

    Jundo, Thank you for the info and article That helped clear things up to the level of mud .
    In a nutshell (1) the way the various titles are used in the West has very little relationship to the very different usages in Japan and China (2) even so, usages vary greatly from Sangha to Sangha and Lineage to Lineage.
    Leave it to us westerners to muddle things up. :lol:
    My take now then is that a title is whatever a person or group decides it to be at any given time? (Careful with those silly names those things have a way of sticking )
    For now I will stick with just plain Jundo, and Taigu if that is acceptable, and save the fancy titles for later perhaps.

    As for paying respects I shall just use my simple words, and thank you Jundo, and Taigu for the teaching you provide, and the effort you put into giving us a place to learn, ask questions, and maybe most important do it while not taking ourselves too seriously. I will do my best to be a good student.
    While I am at it I will also extend thanks to everyone who post here at Treeleaf, as I have learned much from everone.

    Gasshos to all....
    ~Dave

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  • scott
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    how about Shirley?

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  • Seishin the Elder
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    I kinda like Tzeyde! :lol:

    Mazel'tov

    Kyrill/Seishin

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  • Dosho
    replied
    Re: Whats in a name?

    How about Skipper?

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