caffeine and zazen.........again

[Rich]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

Hi all,

And thanks Roky, for starting this thread.

Well, I suppose I am a coffee addict. I will try to sit occasionally before my cup as an experiment, but (like this morning) I likely won't remember that intent until I am half-way through my cup... It is interesting to consider the thought of caffeine as a liability; for me it is a true pleasure and an opportunity to be in the moment. (Confession: I am a coffee geek - I roast my own green beans, and have alot of fun coffee paraphernalia)- this is the definition of attachment I suppose.

Sitting without caffeine - I have done so in the deep dark past - is much more of a challenge. Perhaps that challenge is a good thing occasionally...

m

I buy my beans from the local roaster. Right now I have a bag of Sumatra - resonant, deep, fruit toned acidity, full body and rich, idiosyncratic bottom notes - as described on the label. I prefer the dark roasts for the smell and flavor and they have less cafeine. I'm actually sensitive to cafeine so I limit myself to one or two cups a day. But I can smell the beans anytime

[roky]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

stop it guys -- i'm drooling all over myself

[Rich]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

stop it guys -- i'm drooling all over myself

:lol: LOL

[roky]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

and to muddy the waters even more: http://www.amazing-green-tea.com/green- ... feine.html

[mark]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

Ahhh, tea... More confessions; not only am I a coffee geek, but tea in all of its variety and sublime taste profiles makes me happy too. Sometimes I use tea as a sort of coffee methadone, when I think I have been overdoing the coffee thing. But mostly I save it for those rare afternoons when I have time to savor it. I have also been known to put a little high grade matcha in my water bottle when I am working late.

I enjoy all of the research suggesting that tea and or coffee is wonderful for you. I suspect though that the authors are all fellow-addicts...

Well, having again forgotten to sit before coffee, I shall now go and sit. Oh and Rich; mmm Sumatra - one of the miracles of coffeedom - I will be roasting some tonight!

m

[Jikyo]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

Hi Roky and everyone,

When I sit in the morning it is usually before any tea (or coffee, when I used to drink it), and when I sit in the evening it is always caffeine-free. If I'm too caffeinated before zazen, my mind can be a bit too buzzy to settle down. Then it's just a case of saying "well, my mind was sure busy during that sit," and I move on.

I am currently a tea-only imbiber. Usually a cup of green followed by a cup of strong black, with soy milk and stevia, which I am sipping as I type this. Oh, and when I was a coffee drinker, I do think I was addicted to it. Tea affects me differently - I don't get a caffeine headache if I skip it, whereas I did with coffee. We refer to coffee at my house as "the devil's brew." :twisted:

Roky - I thought you might enjoy this from “The Book of Green Tea” by Diana Rosen.

The first cup moistens my lip and throat, the second cup breaks my loneliness.
The third cup searches my barren entrail to find therein some thousand volumes of odd ideographs.
The fourth cup raises a slight perspiration, all the wrongs of life pass out through my pores.
At the fifth cup I am purified.
The sixth cup calls me to the realms of the immortals.
The seventh cup, ah, but I could take no more.
I only feel the breath of the cool wind that raises in my sleeves. Where is Elysium? Let me ride on this sweet breeze and waft away thither.
~Lu T’ung, “Tea Drinking”

Gassho, Jikyo

[Hogo]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

I think the moral of this thread is that every one is different. As for me and sitting caffenie free, Bad move at least until I get myself cut back. I only tried for a day with zero coffee. Very stormy sit indeed, and like you used to Jean I get the nice headache if I skip it. I did try a second day on 1/2 calf that they now have in stores, not bad at all. I still got to drink my morning 4 8) and felt good. I too am a big tea fan, I think like with anything I will try to enjoy it all..... in moderation.

[Amelia]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

I don't want to get WAY to philosophical here... but isn't moderation also relative? One man's moderation is another man's addiction?

[Jundo]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

I don't want to get WAY to philosophical here... but isn't moderation also relative? One man's moderation is another man's addiction?

Yes, some can handle a glass of wine with dinner or a beer, and that is moderation.

For some, any touch of alcohol is addiction.

Though we are all the same, we are all different.

[roky]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

thanks, Jikyo, for that wonderful excerpt -- and thanks also for everyone's feedback -- it really helps to know what others are experiencing, and particularly the interaction between formal practice and caffeine

but one thing that i believe no one mentioned, including me, is the impact off the cushion on one's mindfulness -- a nice thing about mindfulness, is it can allow you to be less harmful to others -- specifically, when i am not zipping along, i find i can see that little gap better, the gap between an event and my reaction -- i am less likely to lose it and say something hurtful to another, i can see the initial gut response, and choose to not react verbally -- amazing :idea: -- with coffee, i have such lofty intentions, but the words are out of my mouth before i know it -- and for me, the difference in that gap is very slight, but just enough

having said that, i do drink some green tea, genmaicha at present -- for those who do imbibe on a budget, check out "davidson's bulk tea" on amazon.com -- for my less developed tastes, this organic genmaicha is excellent, and only $11/lb -- and there are many other varieties of tea available from them, all organic -- but you must order though amazon, for some reason davidson's has the same products for a much higher price :?:

enjoy -- mindfully -- or not

gassho, roky

[ScottyDoo]

Re: caffeine and zazen.........again

I've been a coffee drinker for years as well as highly caffeinated soda's, etc, etc. Caffeine doesn't do anything for me as far as waking me up, or giving me a buzz. I can have (and often do) a triple shot of espresso right before going to bed at night and fall right asleep, in fact it helps me to get to sleep faster...and it's generally some of my deepest sleep.

The reason for this I discovered is because I have ADHD, and stimulants affect me completely different. I've been self medicating with coffee all these years apparently, hehe. I often will meditate after work as my meds have kicked in at that point and I have much less mental chatter, or atleast I'm able to not get caught up in it as easily. I take 30mg of a time-released amphetamine (prescribed) once a day at lunch, so about 4-5 hours after that I'm feeling my best, and my head is much more clear.

Long story short, I can meditate with and without caffeine or other stimulants, though I prefer it with. I'm not someone who can't function without my morning coffee. As I said, it doesn't wake me up, and I often get too distracted and end up not having time to make any. I have a harder time dragging myself out of bed, but once I'm up, I'm up and can function just fine. I figure that unless I want to be dependent on meds for the rest of my life I ought to work on facing my mental chatter and not getting caught up in it. Everyone has to work through this process, but it's definitely more of a challenge when your mind is like a pinball machine running at warp speed.