a timed sit, or just sit

[grassblade]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

Hi Jundo,
Thanks for the insights into what i posted. The period of which i was talking about was almost 24 years ago. Through the years my practice is as u have described. I do not reach a state of shutting the world out. Like you have said it is just sitting and letting thoughts come and go. I am striving for no state of mind, and am aware of my surroundings without being overly attached to them. I can see how u would think through my desciptions of that "timeless" since we sometimes have, that i think that is Zazen. Thank you for bringing up the middle way. I sit now to just be sitting, no goals, no striving, just sitting. And when i get up from my sit it carries on throughout my day. Of course occasionally i fall back into habit, but it doesn't usually last too long.
You seem to be the most involved "teacher" on the internet. And it is almost like a "real" Sangha that is existing in cyberspace. I appreciate your efforts and the results of them.
I can only watch your videos after from 1am to 6am because we have satellite internet and it has a "Fair Access Policy", if we exceed a certain amount of downloaded info we have to go through a shut down period of 24 hours. So when i am cogent enough during that time frame i will certainly watch the videos you made.

Thank You,
Frank

[Jundo]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

And it is almost like a "real" Sangha that is existing in cyberspace.

What do you mean "almost like"??? :twisted:

We are as real as real can be (or, anyway, as dreamlike as the rest of reality ... ) 8)

Yes, just sitting ... I like the timeless, but we try not to forget or resist time too.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jinyu]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

What do you mean "almost like"??? :twisted:

:mrgreen:

[bayamo]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

And it is almost like a "real" Sangha that is existing in cyberspace.

What do you mean "almost like"??? :twisted:

We are as real as real can be (or, anyway, as dreamlike as the rest of reality ... ) 8)

Yes, just sitting ... I like the timeless, but we try not to forget or resist time too.

Gassho, Jundo

i see it as real as real can be.. its the 21st century, times change yet somethings remain timeless.. the dharma is being presented in ways we never thought possible..
gassho

[Shohei]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

We sit with our eyes open (2/3rds open), focused as our "object of meditation" on what I term "everything and nothing at all" (although some forms of Shikantaza will focus more on the breath, posture or the like).

So.... I have a question about this. I tried to search the forum for info, but why do the eyes have to be open? For some reason, when I try to do zazen with eyes open, I have one of two issues:

1. Eyes get real splotchy looking at the wall.
2. My eyes freak out, and I blink a lot.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Hiya!

Not one thing.

Eyes open helps keep our feet on the ground/head outta the clouds.(and in early morning/late night/baby-holding-@ 4am-due-to-teething it eyes closed leads to quickly to zzZZzzazen - in my experience!).
With eyes closed I found it too easy to wander off with thoughts or play to long with visions that may appear. eyes open...not so much. Splotchy walls and eyes freaking out will go away...if not could be a bit of over focusing? do you think?...looking for one central focus point.

If you can let your gaze just rest, wide field of vision works for me. Just let your eyes fall comfortably too. I found forcing one thing or another...say 2/3rds open (heh or 1/3rd closed...as the case may be!) tends to make my eyes twitchy. Blinking is fine...actually its all good just let your eyes be them eyes and do not try to make them do something uncomfortable

Hope some of this helps!

Gassho
Shohei

[Jundo]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

We sit with our eyes open (2/3rds open), focused as our "object of meditation" on what I term "everything and nothing at all" (although some forms of Shikantaza will focus more on the breath, posture or the like).

So.... I have a question about this. I tried to search the forum for info, but why do the eyes have to be open? For some reason, when I try to do zazen with eyes open, I have one of two issues:

1. Eyes get real splotchy looking at the wall.
2. My eyes freak out, and I blink a lot.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks!

Hi,

We have the eyes open (about 1/3 or 2/3rds) as, in Shikantaza, we are not seeking to remove or separate ourselves from the world and surrounding environment at all (actually, we are allowing the very unmaking of removal and separation to occur). We just sit with "what is", and do not try to close it out or hide it. In Japanese Soto style, it is traditional to sit in a quiet room, and facing the wall, to provide some degree of settling and quiet (which allows the mind to settle) ... but many in the west also sit facing into to room, looking at a downward angle toward the floor. As well, every few weeks or so, I recommend folks to sit in a very disturbing environment, as here ...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=15188

and a daily practice like this ...

http://www.shambhalasun.com/sunspace/?p=14965

In any event, the eyes should be blinking normally, and in focus ... normal focus (not over focus either, as Shohei says). We should be looking at "everything and nothing in particular", which does not mean that you let the eyes go blurry or teary. It is simply that you do not think about, or daydream about, whatever you are looking at ... for example "oh, a spot on the wall ... I like that spot ... that spot looks like a dog ... I like dogs ... I need to feed the dog ... I need to go to the grocery and buy dog food ... etc. etc. ). We just see the spot without seeing it, without pondering it or judging it.

Did that "clear things up" a bit? 8)

Shohei posted as I was writing this ... Ditto to his comments.

Gassho, J

[AlanLa]

Re: a timed sit, or just sit

In any event, the eyes should be blinking normally, and in focus ... normal focus (not over focus either, as Shohei says). We should be looking at "everything and nothing in particular", which does not mean that you let the eyes go blurry or teary. It is simply that you do not think about, or daydream about, whatever you are looking at ... for example "oh, a spot on the wall ... I like that spot ... that spot looks like a dog ... I like dogs ... I need to feed the dog ... I need to go to the grocery and buy dog food ... etc. etc. ). We just see the spot without seeing it, without pondering it or judging it.

There are some times when the bell rings to end my sitting that I realize I never even found a spot on the wall to look at, such was my monkey mind. Hell, sometimes it's "what wall?" But it was still zazen.

I screwed up setting my timer today so I "timed" my sit according to the heater coming on and going off. Since it wasn't on the clock, so to speak, does that mean it was untimed?

Timed/untimed, just more labels to drop.