Pronunciation of Zen terms

[will]

Re: Pronunciation of Zen terms

Luis
It's just funny to see how our mothertongue conditionate the way we think or act...

Which has no bearing on true Zen practice.

Most of the time I think we can stick to: "Please pass the salt."

W

[Jundo]

Re: Pronunciation of Zen terms

Most of the time I think we can stick to: "Please pass the salt."

W

Salt alone makes a pretty limited diet. As you know, Will, it is worth mentioning that Master Dogen was not so enthusiastic about this "Zen as the Way beyond Words & Letters" perspective.

I mean, don't get me wrong, we are chock full of tastes and wisdom that is not to be expressed in Words & Letters ... we are as "Beyond Words & Letters" as all the Zen folks.

But Dogen (who often held perfectly contradictory teachings without the least contradiction) ALSO held that well chosen "Words & Letters", were the manifestation of the Buddha's Truth in each word & letter. Words and Letters could bring the Buddha's Truth to life ... and not merely as "fingers pointing to the moon", but as the moonlinghtshining through the words and letters. That is why he was such a prolific ... and creative ... writer.

And Toby ...

Howz about a pronunciation for Eihei? In my head its 'ee-hay'

"A" as in "ABC", "Hay" as in "What Horses Eat".

Dogen was "Eihei Dogen" because he was the founder of "Eiheiji" temple. While nobody is completely sure, the name is the Japanese pronunciation of the Chinese Yung-p'ing era (58-75 CE, meaning "Eternal Peace") when Buddhism is said to have been first introduced in China.

Now you know. That and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Gassho, J

[will]

Re: Pronunciation of Zen terms

it is worth mentioning that Master Dogen was not so enthusiastic about this "Zen as the Way beyond Words & Letters" perspective.

Ya I know. We do what we do. But where exactly does it say we "need" to express it?

Anyway, your right on that one and I'm not taking a side either way.

That post was more of a "not worrying too much about all the talk all the time" (there's a lot of that that goes on), type thing. You know, sit, pass the salt, eat, etc.. We need that sometimes.

I didn't literally mean "pass the salt" is all we need That would be weird. You know that.

Gassho _/_

W

[Myosha]

Hello,

Which is 'Rohatsu', 'Rohachi', 'Rohats'?

Thank you.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Jundo]

Hello,

Which is 'Rohatsu', 'Rohachi', 'Rohats'?

Thank you.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

First off, where did you find this ancient thread?

Rohatsu. Ro is very much like row in "row your boat" ... hatsu is very much like a plural of "hot" from "hot dish" ... hots. Sometimes the "u" sound at the end is vocalized very subtly and lightly, pronounced as in the French word for water, eau.

Simpler is just to hear me say it at the start of our Retreat ... 1:54 mark here ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W919Ht2wOsE

Gassho, J

[Myosha]

Hello,

Thank you.

Q: What is this "ancient" you speak of?^^


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[scareyw]

Ga (rhymes with "ma and pa") and sho (like "let's go to a show")

Gassho, Jundo

I was under the impression that every "syllable" had equal emphasis in Japanese. I have been saying ga-s-sho, thogh the final vowel sound can be trimmed to an ending mouth shape, rather than being pronounced fully. You do live there, though, so I imagine you know more about it than me. lol

Gassssssssshhhhhiiibll8bleargb....
Carey sat today

[Jundo]

I was under the impression that every "syllable" had equal emphasis in Japanese. I have been saying ga-s-sho, thogh the final vowel sound can be trimmed to an ending mouth shape, rather than being pronounced fully. You do live there, though, so I imagine you know more about it than me. lol

Gassssssssshhhhhiiibll8bleargb....
Carey sat today

Hi Carey,

I am not a linguist, but I will say that some syllables and sounds are emphasized more than others in pitch, some silent or barely voiced. SweepingZen used to have a glossary of Zen words with sound files pronounced by Koun Franz (who, although a yankee like me, lived in Japan for years). However, I cannot find it, and it seems they may have taken it down. I need to ask Adam of SweepingZen why.

My favorite example is Hashi (bridge 橋) and Hashi (chopsticks箸) and Hashi (edge端). Can you make out the difference (from 1:00 mark here)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmsnvE8TPsA

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Sekishi]

Oh, I want to play too!

kesa: kay-suh OR keh-suh
rakusu: ra-ku-soo OR rock-soo
sesshin: seh-sheen OR seh-shin
sho shu jo (end of the robe verse): show shoe joe OR show shoe yo

Gah-show,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Jundo]

Hi Sekishi,

I suggest you keep your ears open listening to me and others, especially native Japanese. You have been around here long enough that you have probably heard most of those words 1000 times each.

Gassho, J

[Sekishi]

I suggest you keep your ears open listening to me and others, especially native Japanese. You have been around here long enough that you have probably heard most of those words 1000 times each.

I do. Carefully.

And for the first three, I hear both pronunciations around Treeleaf.

For the last (jo/yo) it is the difference in what I generally hear at Treeleaf (jo) vs. my local sitting group (yo). For that one I just follow the "when in Rome" rule.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Jundo]

Hmmm.

kesa: Rhymes with the second syllable of "countessa"
rakusu: "rock" + woman's name "sue" (some folks may voice the "u" more, as "rock-eau-sue", but that is optional. No "eau", as in French "water" is fine with or without).
sesshin: Very close to "session"
sho shu jo (end of the robe verse): show shoe joe (as in the man's name)

Ga (rhymes with "ma and pa") and sho (like "let's go to a show")

Jun (like the month of June) do (as in bread dough)

SatToday

[CK732]

Good thread I'm glad to have come across it. For a newbie like me it's perfect.

Gassho

Clarisse Sat2Day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sekishi]

Thank you June-dough, this was very helpful.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Jundo]

I added a Rakusu addendum ...

rakusu: "rock" + woman's name "sue" (some folks may voice the "u" more, as "rock-eau-sue", but that is optional. The "eau", as in French "water", is fine with or without).

Gassho, J

SatToday