Ordained vs. Lay at TreeLeaf?

[Alina]

Our Jukai preparations start each September for the ceremony in January, with reflections and study on each of the Precepts and sewing a Rakusu, and you are more than welcome to join in if it feels right to you.

However, in my opinion, the most important thing is -not- the ceremony itself, which alone works no magic by itself. The ceremony is just a celebration and affirmation of our seeking to live gently, and to learn from the Buddhist teachings, right now and each day. The ceremony just celebrates and confirms that fact. More important is that you do your best, today, to live gently in a way helpful and healthy to oneself and others (who are "not two," by the way), avoiding harm such as excess desires, anger, violence, jealousy, ugly speech and the like. That is the real Jukai, undertaking the Precepts, each day.

Thank you Jundo for sharing this, I was about to ask about how to take the precepts here on Treeleaf.

I recently realized after several sittings of zazen that maybe I didn't need to follow the natural evolution that was in my mind: laywoman>novice nun>ordained nun>etc.
I saw these steps in a natural way, as if it were so:
school>high school>university>etc.
They were obvious and natural steps in my head, when perhaps by taking the lay vows I can already do a lot for others and for myself.

Thank you Gloria for sharing this, I had the same idea in my head, but could not express it clearly just yet.

Thank you Benjamin for starting the thread and everyone for sharing, it has helped me a lot.


Gassho
Alina
stlah

[Benjamin Gieseke]

What a wonderful conversation to come back to after a busy week, thank you to Jundo and everyone else for the clarity and answers shared. I resonated especially with the comments made by Gloria and Alina regarding the lay->ordained "progression", that was something I also perceived as "natural" but was not able to articulate.

(As an aside, Jundo's example of the priest-as-ecologist really got me because I work as an ecologist [interpretive naturalist]! I'm not sure if that was purposeful or not but either way it certainly hit close to home!)

Thank you all, gassho
Benjamin
stlah

[Soka]

I don't know about how the quantity or even quality of my practice differs as a layperson compared to how it would look if I became one of the ordained folk, but I think one thing that would change would be the consistency and the structure.

As a layperson, I get to be consistently inconsistent, wandering in and out as Treeleaf's part-time, half-wild wanderer. I have my own half-remembered routines that I have gotten into the bad habit of following. I read the Zen books that resonate with me at that moment, or I don't (that happens too).

The Unsui here are consistently more visibly present, genuinely knowledgeable and wonderfully helpful.

I think another possible distinction, at least for the Unsui (and ordained folk outside of Treeleaf) that I've spoken to about this, they have good answers to questions like "Who am I doing this for?" and "Who does this help?"

For me, unless I wanted permission to teach (which would not be permissible in Vietnam anyway), I can't help but think that nobody really needs a Reverend Sōka.

In the meantime, I get to quietly go about my practice, helping anyone who gets in my way.

With the true emptiness of non-action,
I nap on a stone pillow among rocks.
Do you ask me what is my power?
A single tattered robe through life!
-- Naong Hyegeun


Gassho,
Sōka
sat

[Seiga]

I don't know about how the quantity or even quality of my practice differs as a layperson compared to how it would look if I became one of the ordained folk, but I think one thing that would change would be the consistency and the structure.

As a layperson, I get to be consistently inconsistent, wandering in and out as Treeleaf's part-time, half-wild wanderer. I have my own half-remembered routines that I have gotten into the bad habit of following. I read the Zen books that resonate with me at that moment, or I don't (that happens too).

The Unsui here are consistently more visibly present, genuinely knowledgeable and wonderfully helpful.

I think another possible distinction, at least for the Unsui (and ordained folk outside of Treeleaf) that I've spoken to about this, they have good answers to questions like "Who am I doing this for?" and "Who does this help?"

For me, unless I wanted permission to teach (which would not be permissible in Vietnam anyway), I can't help but think that nobody really needs a Reverend Sōka.

In the meantime, I get to quietly go about my practice, helping anyone who gets in my way.

With the true emptiness of non-action,
I nap on a stone pillow among rocks.
Do you ask me what is my power?
A single tattered robe through life!
-- Naong Hyegeun


Gassho,
Sōka
sat

[emoji3531]
[emoji1374]
Seiga
Satlah


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