How to conceal/convince someone of the practice?

**Bion** · 02-10-2024, 11:29 PM

Thanks for sharing this!
I think folks generally fear what they don’t know or don’t understand. You can probably introduce small things gently, so that it’s not a big sudden reveal: "tada!! I’m a buddhist!"

Maybe don’t paint it as this huge life changing thing, or humongous difference with her ways. Make your buddhist practice an ordinary thing in your life, with no special status. Use soft language, that sounds familiar, if it ever comes up in conversations. Meditation is not just a buddhist thing, for example. In a way, it’s simply using solitude as a way to face oneself. Jesus did that for 40 days in the desert before he was ready to preach, and often he withdrew to be alone before important moments. Use things that are common to both christianity and buddhism: compassion is the basis of all action, love your neighbor as yourself and do to others only as you want done to you etc
Ultimately you should be wise, read the situation, be considerate and not put the desire to have a “buddhist coming out” above maintaining a peaceful environment if you have to choose. At the end of the day, they stay the same, but it is us who change, and they are just not always prepared for it.

Take this with handfuls of salt, as I speak simply from my perspective and ideas, not in any way shape or form as someone who actually is qualified to talk about this.

Sorry for running so long

gassho
sat and lah

**Koushi** · 02-11-2024, 12:54 AM

Hi Ryker,

What a delicate situation you're in! There's a couple of things that come to mind:

Zen/Buddhist practice and principles, such as zazen, mindfulness, compassion, and cultivating wisdom do not necessarily need to be labeled as "Buddhism" to be a part of who you are or how you live. Your practice can be personal and internal, expressed through your actions, kindness, and the way you handle difficulties and interact with others.

In this sense, nothing ever needs to be openly declared to be real and effective.

As far as the books, clothing, and such, if concealing these items keeps harmony and avoids unnecessary conflict, it may be the compassionate choice given your circumstances.

If the topic comes up, it could be helpful to frame your practice in terms that align with universal values, such as mindfulness, compassion, and the pursuit of peace and understanding—which are not exclusive to Buddhism, as Bion noted.

At the end of the day, it's never the "things" that are important, but what we embody and put into action.

Hope this helps a bit—and we're always here for support

Gassho,
Koushi
ST

**Amelia** · 02-11-2024, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Ryker

How does one conceal/hide (mention as something other then Buddhism) with our practice from someone who would be venominantly against it, to the point of potentially causing severe issues?

I just don't talk about it with people who I know don't want to hear about it, or to whom it would not add to the conversation in the slightest.

I live in a house with a lot of other people, and despite being a novice priest, my living practice includes very little liturgy or formal setting sitting because there's not much space and no one else is particularly interested in it. However, unlike your situation, when they see me in robes they pretty much assume I am doing something with "my zen group" so it's not totally secret. They know I'm an unsui, but not quite what that means. Some family have confronted me nastily about it, but at then end of the day they pretty much leave me alone.

Perhaps, in your situation, it would be best to not worry about it so much and just be yourself. There's no need to talk about things in a Buddhist way, or have a sitting space with a zafu and Buddha statue. You can sit anywhere at anytime, really. Shikantaza is the practice. Everything else is not really necessary, nor skillful if it is in disharmony with your surroundings and personal life. What is most important is that you are safe and comfortable where you are living.

stlah

**Tokan** · 02-11-2024, 01:14 AM

Hey Ryker

What the others have offered are great words of widsom. Most of us have faced challenges around disclosing, explaining, and being accepted as what we are. My wife doesn't like me being a novice-priest, and my mother-in-law is a fundamentalist Christian, so no matter how much 'shared ground' I try to create, I'm still an 'other.' As you have highlighted mental illness I wonder how the practice has helped you manage distress or difficulty in life? Sometimes this helps people understand the value of Buddhist practice in our daily life, and while they may still not 'like it', they see that it is important to us, and mum's usually want us to be happy most of the time. It sounds like from your disclosing being trans, and how she reacted to this, that there might have been some acceptance there, but I would imagine it took some time. If you have a therapist/counsellor of any kind, perhaps this is something you could talk through with them face to face, getting support to find the right way forward, as you are doing, is a great idea. Good luck with this. Oh, one more thing, don't mum's love being bought flowers by their kids? No harm in sharing the love!

I am a novice-priest, so I do not advise with any authority, just out of compassion for all beings.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

**Ryker** · 02-11-2024, 01:46 AM

Thank you everyone who has responded so far, I feel responding this will instead of individually would be best to reduce me adding clutter to the forum haha.

So what I have gathered is to basically act zen instead of outright proclaiming to her my status as a Buddhist as it would just causes suffering.

That goes for hiding things to reduce this suffering, like the mentioned books/clothing/etc. It obviously still sucks of course but I can only hope it won't always be this way.

I also Didn't really realize how one doesn't need a dedicated room for Zazen as u CAN do it anywhere. While I would still love one for ease of use as it would always be prepared/ready, what's a few minutes out of one's day to prepare?

I can always do prep as the tea is brewing for example.

Also I think it's too funny that almost everyone has mentioned Christianity, as u hit the nail on the head.

Thank you all so very much for ur thoughtful responses and I hope u all have a wonderful day/night.

Gasshō, Ryker [emoji120]
Sat/Lah

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**Ryker** · 02-11-2024, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Tokan

Hey Ryker

What the others have offered are great words of widsom. Most of us have faced challenges around disclosing, explaining, and being accepted as what we are. My wife doesn't like me being a novice-priest, and my mother-in-law is a fundamentalist Christian, so no matter how much 'shared ground' I try to create, I'm still an 'other.' As you have highlighted mental illness I wonder how the practice has helped you manage distress or difficulty in life? Sometimes this helps people understand the value of Buddhist practice in our daily life, and while they may still not 'like it', they see that it is important to us, and mum's usually want us to be happy most of the time. It sounds like from your disclosing being trans, and how she reacted to this, that there might have been some acceptance there, but I would imagine it took some time. If you have a therapist/counsellor of any kind, perhaps this is something you could talk through with them face to face, getting support to find the right way forward, as you are doing, is a great idea. Good luck with this. Oh, one more thing, don't mum's love being bought flowers by their kids? No harm in sharing the love!

I am a novice-priest, so I do not advise with any authority, just out of compassion for all beings.

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

I'm so sorry Tokan, I didn't see ur reply till after my original comment to everyone so let me answer a few things now

So for the mental illness part, so I haven't really gotten to practice much as I would have liked due to life complications so I can't say to the full extent BUT meditation has certainly helped me calm down a bit when I feel out of place/overwhelmed. I can only hope it continues to aid in that, I'm sure it will even more

. I can only hope my mom will see it in this light of being helpful and wanting me to be happy and overall feeling better, multiple mental illness is certainly draining, especially ones with little resources or being misunderstood/not known about via the general public.

Trans: so yes she is more accepting of it now, took 14 years and she was abusive when I first came out so I'm thankful for her change of heart in the situation.

I thankfully do have a therapist I can talk to and thankfully all of u on things regarding how to handle in a Zen like matter.

Hahah flowers is a grand idea! [emoji362] Thank you

Gasshō, Ryker
Sat/Lah

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**Shokai** · 02-11-2024, 02:05 AM

**Rich** · 02-11-2024, 02:17 AM

From the situation you describe I probably wouldn’t discuss religion with my family. If asked i may talk about the benefits of meditation. Whatever you say depends on the situation and you don’t have to say anything

Sat/lah

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**Jundo** · 02-11-2024, 02:27 AM

Very good advice above.

Remember that Buddhists, including Zen Buddhists, were subject at times to great persecution in China, Japan, India and elsewhere at various times in history, often on pain of arrest or death. Some say that the Rakusu was invented as a way to hide robes under their regular clothes. My first meditation teacher in China (from what I gathered, my Chinese was very bad and he had a strong accent) was a Buddhist priest who, during China's cultural revolution, had been banished to the countryside, forced to be a pig farmer and to marry a nun (I think.) When I met him, he was in Beijing, trying to recover part of his temple, which the government had seized to be a warehouse. I could barely understand what he was telling me, but he did tell me to sit on a cushion and face the wall.

In any case, your situation is better than that!

So, don't raise the topic, don't have obvious Buddhist things out "in their face." We Zen folks tend not to proselytize, trying to aggressively convert others to our beliefs (if we did, well, we might have more members!

) Celebrate their holidays with the family, go to church sometimes if mom asks (Nothing wrong with making mom happy, and is not Buddha in the church too?)

If you must talk about meditation for some reason, say that even many Christians meditate, and it is widely accepted as good therapy. No need to mention the Buddhism aspect.

Use common sense, keep Buddha a bit on the down low.

Gassho, J

stlah

**Jundo** · 02-11-2024, 02:31 AM

PS - Let me add that, yes, the best demonstration is to act gently, to be a good son or daughter or sibling. Sometimes, if they see the good effect it has on you, they will get the message that it is a good thing from that more than anything you say.

It was a bit like that with my own mother, and she and I ended up sitting (reclining) Zazen together in her final months as she softened to such things.

**Ryker** · 02-11-2024, 02:46 AM

Originally posted by Rich

From the situation you describe I probably wouldn’t discuss religion with my family. If asked i may talk about the benefits of meditation. Whatever you say depends on the situation and you don’t have to say anything

Sat/lah

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Very true, Rich.
Thank you

Gasshō,Ryker
Sat/Lah

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**Ryker** · 02-11-2024, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by Jundo

PS - Let me add that, yes, the best demonstration is to act gently, to be a good son or daughter or sibling. Sometimes, if they see the good effect it has on you, they will get the message that it is a good thing from that more than anything you say.

It was a bit like that with my own mother, and she and I ended up sitting (reclining) Zazen together in her final months as she softened to such things.

I'll be responding to both ur comments here so thankful for the words of wisdom like the others and the info u shared.

It has been very helpful and easy to understand. Thank you Jundo

Gasshō,Ryker
Sat/Lah

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**Nengei** · 02-11-2024, 03:37 AM

Please take anything I say with a grain of salt. I am only a priest in training. I have no depth of knowledge or credentials to teach the Dharma or Zen Buddhist practice. I apologize for the length. Maybe somewhere in here are some ideas of use to you.

I have been reflecting on this since I first saw it this afternoon. I appreciate the opportunity to think on, and write about, these ideas. There have been a couple of big things I have hidden about myself--and sometimes from myself--in the past, including my spiritual beliefs/practice, and being gay.

In both cases, these are not things that have to be talked about. There is no need to discuss personal relationships, no need to discuss political positions, and no need to talk about religion. Day was, in fact, we did not speak about any of these things as a matter of courtesy. I knew a fellow in college who I spent a good amount of time with and visited with his parents. I had known him and his family for years before finding out they were Latter-Day Saints. In the West, maybe particularly in the US, when we find some new thing ( I don't mean being LGBTQIA+ but I do mean finding the strength to come out) to become a central part of our life, something we identify with, we also seem to find the need to wear T shirts, get stickers, and find ways to be public about it. We seek affirmation. Sometimes this makes sense; for example, Christians wearing a discreet piece of jewelry to identify themselves to each other or to remind them of their commitment. I think the explosion of rainbows that sometimes follow coming out can be helpful for others who are struggling to find their strength. I like for there to be aspects of my home that remind me of my practice, even without advertising it to others (though stepping outside my house wearing black robes and a shaved head probably clues my neighbors in to something being up. And we have a giant Progress Pride flag hanging on our front porch, so...

When I was younger, being out was downright unsafe, almost anywhere you lived. If you were gay, people expected you to pretend you weren't, and many still do. But I think sometimes that hiding spiritual practice was harder on my insides than hiding being gay. And perhaps especially hiding it from people I knew would be upset, but only if I cared what they thought. I think Christians who advertise themselves as such, and who talk about it constantly, are also seeking affirmation from their own place of dukkha, but as a whole they have given themselves permission to become hostile toward anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. They make it hard to turn the conversation away from their religion. And as you are well aware, in the US, being some sorts of Christian has taken permission to be downright nasty and to live a life of fear and hate.

There is not talking about the things that make you who you are with people you don't give two shakes about. Then there is the constant onslaught of stress that comes from hiding who you are from people who are a part of your life. You might even pretend to be something you are not, in order to reduce conflict or avoid fallout. Somewhere along that road, and only you can say where for yourself, not speaking your truth becomes not the truth. You doubtless experienced this at some point in how you interacted with others as a transgender person. Only you can say where this point is. It will depend on what you prioritize. It becomes a distraction from your path as a Buddhist, particularly if you wish to remain adherent to the Eightfold Path and to the Precepts. And, on the other side, not being able to live your truth, as you also have no doubt experienced, at some point outweighs the wish to remain hidden.

Still, we do not need to talk about being Buddhist, even when our will so strongly wants to broadcast it to the world with a nice altar, Tibetan prayer flags in the garden, and all that stuff. What do we really need to engage in Zen Buddhist practice? A place to park it for zazen. That is all. Nothing else. It does not need to be a zafu and zabuton, in a dedicated space in front of an altar with incense burning.

Next on the list is a way to learn the Dharma, and here it is, right in front of you. Books are lovely. So is a Kindle or iPad with a passcode.

We can be helpful to others and participate in engaged practice without really telling anyone.

Do we need an altar? Not really, at least unless you assign some magical, mystical aspect to Zen, which we really don't have anyway. You know what makes a great thing to use on an altar (or tabletop, or shelf)? A roll of toilet paper. A potato. A rock. These items may be even better to have on an altar than a nicely carved statue of Kannon or Buddha. A rock just rocks. A potato just potatoes (and then you can have it for lunch). A roll of toilet paper just does what toilet paper does. How much more real can you get?

I swear that the time will come in your life when you will have much less concern over this. The more quickly you are able to become financially independent, the quicker that time will come, although there are other factors involved.

My last words on this (about time, shut up Nengei) are that it is valuable to look at, and sit with, your own feelings, attitudes, and thoughts on this matter. How secure are you in your identity as a Zen Buddhist? If you are new to Zen Buddhism, maybe you don't yet know enough to have a confrontational discussion about it. Can you participate in such a discussion with equanimity? If you are expecting conflict, why? And what does that say? Are you prepared for whatever may follow? Is the suffering that comes from hiding your spiritual practice more or less than the suffering that will come from revealing it?

I hope something here is helpful for you.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

**Ryker** · 02-11-2024, 04:46 AM

Originally posted by Nengei

Please take anything I say with a grain of salt. I am only a priest in training. I have no depth of knowledge or credentials to teach the Dharma or Zen Buddhist practice. I apologize for the length. Maybe somewhere in here are some ideas of use to you.

I have been reflecting on this since I first saw it this afternoon. I appreciate the opportunity to think on, and write about, these ideas. There have been a couple of big things I have hidden about myself--and sometimes from myself--in the past, including my spiritual beliefs/practice, and being gay.

In both cases, these are not things that have to be talked about. There is no need to discuss personal relationships, no need to discuss political positions, and no need to talk about religion. Day was, in fact, we did not speak about any of these things as a matter of courtesy. I knew a fellow in college who I spent a good amount of time with and visited with his parents. I had known him and his family for years before finding out they were Latter-Day Saints. In the West, maybe particularly in the US, when we find some new thing ( I don't mean being LGBTQIA+ but I do mean finding the strength to come out) to become a central part of our life, something we identify with, we also seem to find the need to wear T shirts, get stickers, and find ways to be public about it. We seek affirmation. Sometimes this makes sense; for example, Christians wearing a discreet piece of jewelry to identify themselves to each other or to remind them of their commitment. I think the explosion of rainbows that sometimes follow coming out can be helpful for others who are struggling to find their strength. I like for there to be aspects of my home that remind me of my practice, even without advertising it to others (though stepping outside my house wearing black robes and a shaved head probably clues my neighbors in to something being up. And we have a giant Progress Pride flag hanging on our front porch, so...

When I was younger, being out was downright unsafe, almost anywhere you lived. If you were gay, people expected you to pretend you weren't, and many still do. But I think sometimes that hiding spiritual practice was harder on my insides than hiding being gay. And perhaps especially hiding it from people I knew would be upset, but only if I cared what they thought. I think Christians who advertise themselves as such, and who talk about it constantly, are also seeking affirmation from their own place of dukkha, but as a whole they have given themselves permission to become hostile toward anyone who doesn't believe what they believe. They make it hard to turn the conversation away from their religion. And as you are well aware, in the US, being some sorts of Christian has taken permission to be downright nasty and to live a life of fear and hate.

There is not talking about the things that make you who you are with people you don't give two shakes about. Then there is the constant onslaught of stress that comes from hiding who you are from people who are a part of your life. You might even pretend to be something you are not, in order to reduce conflict or avoid fallout. Somewhere along that road, and only you can say where for yourself, not speaking your truth becomes not the truth. You doubtless experienced this at some point in how you interacted with others as a transgender person. Only you can say where this point is. It will depend on what you prioritize. It becomes a distraction from your path as a Buddhist, particularly if you wish to remain adherent to the Eightfold Path and to the Precepts. And, on the other side, not being able to live your truth, as you also have no doubt experienced, at some point outweighs the wish to remain hidden.

Still, we do not need to talk about being Buddhist, even when our will so strongly wants to broadcast it to the world with a nice altar, Tibetan prayer flags in the garden, and all that stuff. What do we really need to engage in Zen Buddhist practice? A place to park it for zazen. That is all. Nothing else. It does not need to be a zafu and zabuton, in a dedicated space in front of an altar with incense burning.

Next on the list is a way to learn the Dharma, and here it is, right in front of you. Books are lovely. So is a Kindle or iPad with a passcode.

We can be helpful to others and participate in engaged practice without really telling anyone.

Do we need an altar? Not really, at least unless you assign some magical, mystical aspect to Zen, which we really don't have anyway. You know what makes a great thing to use on an altar (or tabletop, or shelf)? A roll of toilet paper. A potato. A rock. These items may be even better to have on an altar than a nicely carved statue of Kannon or Buddha. A rock just rocks. A potato just potatoes (and then you can have it for lunch). A roll of toilet paper just does what toilet paper does. How much more real can you get?

I swear that the time will come in your life when you will have much less concern over this. The more quickly you are able to become financially independent, the quicker that time will come, although there are other factors involved.

My last words on this (about time, shut up Nengei) are that it is valuable to look at, and sit with, your own feelings, attitudes, and thoughts on this matter. How secure are you in your identity as a Zen Buddhist? If you are new to Zen Buddhism, maybe you don't yet know enough to have a confrontational discussion about it. Can you participate in such a discussion with equanimity? If you are expecting conflict, why? And what does that say? Are you prepared for whatever may follow? Is the suffering that comes from hiding your spiritual practice more or less than the suffering that will come from revealing it?

I hope something here is helpful for you.

Gassho,
Nengei
Sat today. LAH.

Wow thank u so much Nengei for this thoughtful post, this gives me quite a few questions to think over, which is a good thing.

I'll be considering on what to do and my thoughts and feelings on the questions u brought up here so thank u.

Also ur totally fine for writing so much [emoji23]

Gasshō, Ryker
Sat/Lah

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

How to conceal/convince someone of the practice?

How to conceal/convince someone of the practice?

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