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Zazen "doing nothing" vs "being aware" vs "observing"
I guess what is difficult is to know the difference between being ok with everything that happens, even to the extent of wallowing in your thinking end-to-end in all sittings throughout a lifetime (letting go of everything, even letting go of letting go) vs. trying to control something/ being aware of what’s happening in your mind and in the environment. Almost like a continuum. Where to draw the line? I guess one solution is to let go of this thinking and just sit [emoji28]
Edit: on second thought, and after reading a passage in J’s book (“we confuse being present and mindful in the moment […] with being at one with the moment allowing and merging with conditions of life just as they are”) a continuum/one dimension seems wrong. Two dimensions seems more correct: 1) degree of radical equanimity and 2) open awareness/mindfulness of the moment. 1 is the core, the base. When 1 is in place we add 2 on top. The days when 2 doesn’t work as we want, we are not bothered due to 1.
Sorry for going long.
Gassho, Michael
SatlahLast edited by Houzan; 05-22-2023, 05:38 PM.Comment
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Hi Sam,
This is only my second answer on this forum and I'm not an experienced Zen practitioner, and I certainly don't speak on behalf of Treeleaf, I just come from my own experience, so what I say might not be right for you, and I may have the wrong idea of Zazen.
You asked what to do during Zazen:
- Do Nothing. Leave the mind as is.
- Be fully aware of what's happening (sounds, bodily sensations etc)
- Observe what's happening (sounds, bodily sensations etc)
There was an old Chan master called Foyan, who said "When sitting, why not meditate? When meditating, why not sit?" This implies that there is something about the nature of meditation that occurs whether we sit or not, and doesn't require us to sit, it doesn't require us to not sit.
To me, the reason we sit in Zazen is to hopefully come to experience our true nature. We are already our true nature, therefore, Zazen is not a doing but a being. We are not trying to do something to get a result. We are simply being, in its simplest form. Just sitting. So, I would suggest that there is nothing to do at all, but that's not easy, perhaps. There is nothing to do to become what we already are but perhaps are not yet aware of.
You might want to ask the following:
- What wonders whether it should do nothing at all? What is going to leave the mind as it is? What thinks it has this control, can you find that in yourself?
- What thinks it can be fully, partially, or not aware of sounds, bodily sensations, and so on? And if you are already That of which you seek, does it matter whether you are fully aware of something, or not?
- And naturally, what is observing what is happening?
What is asking the questions, Sam? In the silent practice of sitting, what notices the mind wondering? What becomes aware of something? What is observing the observation? What is attempting to sit without being disturbed by the presence of thought and sound?
You cannot use your mind to discover Reality. Yet, Buddhists would say that everything is mind. With that in "mind", we must assume that what "mind" is, is everything that you think you are, and also everything that you think you are not.Comment
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Hi Heath,
Welcome again.
I was with you until here, where I might offer a little caution ...
We are not so big into asking such questions, or searching for a "Watcher" or a "What that wonders, etc." or "What is asking the questions" or a "That." We do not search for Reality. We do not look for "Mind"You might want to ask the following:
- What wonders whether it should do nothing at all? What is going to leave the mind as it is? What thinks it has this control, can you find that in yourself?
- What thinks it can be fully, partially, or not aware of sounds, bodily sensations, and so on? And if you are already That of which you seek, does it matter whether you are fully aware of something, or not?
- And naturally, what is observing what is happening?
What is asking the questions, Sam? In the silent practice of sitting, what notices the mind wondering? What becomes aware of something? What is observing the observation? What is attempting to sit without being disturbed by the presence of thought and sound?
You cannot use your mind to discover Reality. Yet, Buddhists would say that everything is mind. With that in "mind", we must assume that what "mind" is, is everything that you think you are, and also everything that you think you are not.
Just put that all down, all the hunting and search, and Just Sit. One may find a reality that is all that, all this, and more.
Gassho, Jundo
stlahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Jundo,
You offered this very same pith instruction about “radical equanimity” our very first conversation about the differences between mahamudra and shikantaza. I’m going into my second year practicing as taught by the Soto lineage, after having practiced under a Kagyu teacher for the eight previous years. At my very first 7 day Sesshin this past week, I feel like my understanding of this crisp teaching point finally blossomed, and I wanted to offer you my gratitude.
Gassho,
Yeshe
Sat this evening.Last edited by joshr; 06-05-2023, 12:14 AM.Comment
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Hi Jundo,
Are there any references (Dogen's or other texts or modern day websites) where this radical equanimity is discussed. I wonder why many instructions on Shikantaza (including "opening the hand of thought") don't talk about this
Gassho,
Sam
STComment
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Well, the most basic would be in Master Dogen's Shikantaza and related writings, his instructions for Zazen, which say, "Cast aside all involvements and discontinue all affairs. Do not think of good or evil; do not deal with right or wrong."
Dogen has some other comments on this attitude of equanimity in a sage, for example, this from Tenzo Kyokun ...
Also from the Tenzo Kyokun, which is not only a manual for eating, but a manual for living life ...A “vast mind” is like the great mountains or a vast ocean. It is free of preferences or factionalism. When lifting up an ounce, yet it does not think of it as light; lifting up a ton, it does not think of it as heavy. It is not enticed by the pleasures of springtime … nor saddened by the falling leaves of autumn. It experiences the four seasons all as one movement, and views both ounce or ton with an equal eye. This is the true meaning of “vast.”
Also ...A sutra says, "For the person who knows the sameness of food, all phenomena are also sameness; if all phenomena are sameness, then also in food they will know sameness." Simply let all things be the same with food, let food be the same as all things. Therefore, if all phenomena abide in their dharma nature, then food also abides in its dharma nature. If all phenomena are suchness, food is also suchness. If all phenomena are one mind, food is one mind. If all phenomena are enlightenment [Bodhi], food also is enlightenment.
Of course, there is the ancient Zen teaching, the Shinjinmei, that advises this:When all flows into the vast and undefiled ocean of the Buddha Dharma, the flavors of fine delicacies and the flavors of coarse greens do not exist. There remains only the one taste of the great ocean. ... There is an old saying that a monk's mouth is like a stove [which takes in whatever is placed there without opinion or rejection]. You must understand this. ... Thus, do not regard one as low, nor take them lightly. ... Monks should eat whatever is available to eat. If it is refined they should eat it as what is, and if it is meagre, they should also eat such without distaste. We should simply devote ourselves to practice, avoiding hunger and supporting our life only with whatever faithful patrons have donated, and the pure foods that the temple has. Do not distinguish good and bad based on pleasing taste
Dogen writes of this in the Zuimonki:The Way is not difficult for those free of preferences;
Just do not like, do not dislike, and all becomes clear.
Make the slightest distinction, however, and heaven and earth are torn asunder
Also ....” It is written in the Shinjinmei (Trust in Mind) “The Great Way is not difficult, just be free of preferences.” If one casts aside a mind which discriminates, then one may awaken immediately. Casting aside a discriminating mind is to be free from ego. Do not think that one practices the Buddha Dharma in order to obtain some reward by practicing. One should just practice Buddha Dharma simply for Buddha Dharma’s sake. If such attitude is missing, it is not possible to attain the Way of the Buddhas and Ancestors even if one studies one thousand sutras and ten thousand sutra commentaries, nor if one sits Zazen until one’s sitting place is worn asunder. Only cast off body-mind and, within Buddhism, following along with others while free of prior views, one can immediately accord with the Way. (SZ 5-18)
In Shobogenzo-Koku, Dogen quotes Vasubandu ...A sage … is not attached to gold and jewels, but neither to broken tiles or pebbles. For such reason, Shakyamuni Buddha drank course rice milk offered him by a cowmaid, and grain meant for feeding horses. He met each with equanimity. In the Buddhist Teachings, there is no thing either worthless or precious, and ordinary people judge what is shallow and what is profound. ... (SZ 5-11)
In more recent times, Suzuki Roshi wrote things like ...Mind is like the world of space
equally bringing forth things of emptiness.
When you realize space,
there is nothing good or bad.
Now, the person who faces the wall [in Zazen] meets the wall that faces the person. Here is the mind of a wall, the mind of a decayed tree. This is the world of
space. Awakening others with this body, manifesting this body to speak dharma, is equally bringing forth things of emptiness. ... When you realize space. If the rock’s head is large, its base is large. If the rock’s head is small, its base is small. This is, There is nothing good or bad.
There are more from other teachers, but I would have to find them.In your big mind, everything has the same value. Everything is Buddha himself. You see something or hear a sound, and there you have everything just as it is. In your practice you should accept everything as it is, giving to each thing the same respect given to a Buddha. Here there is Buddhahood. Then Buddha bows to Buddha, and you bow to yourself. This is the true bow.
Gassho, J
satlahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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During this week's Zazenkai, I finally understood/felt the feeling that sitting is complete/whole just as it is and instantly felt lighter and free, despite it being a tough Zazenkai otherwise. (Before that I believe I was trying to convince myself of it, I had turned "radical equanimity" into another goal to be met). I saw it like coming to practice; no matter what happens DURING practice, coming to the cushion is still the practice (like soccer practice, you don't say you didn't have soccer practice just because you fell down a lot!)
Gassho,
SatLah
KellyChikyō 知鏡
(KellyLM)Comment
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Hi Sam,
Jundo has written on many occasions about radical equanimity and the completeness of zazen and that zazen is seen as an enactment ritual. I am not sure if you have read this article from Taigen, but it helped me understand how to practice zazen? It describes how Zazen as an enactment ritual. It is a bit long but worth the time; I have read it multiple times, and I learn something new each time.
Gassho,
Van
SATLAHComment
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That is one of the most important essays ever written about Master Dogen's Zazen in English.Hi Sam,
Jundo has written on many occasions about radical equanimity and the completeness of zazen and that zazen is seen as an enactment ritual. I am not sure if you have read this article from Taigen, but it helped me understand how to practice zazen? It describes how Zazen as an enactment ritual. It is a bit long but worth the time; I have read it multiple times, and I learn something new each time.
Gassho,
Van
SATLAH
Gassho, J
stlahALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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