State between dreaming and waking

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  • Kaitan
    Member
    • Mar 2023
    • 579
    #31
    Originally posted by Jundo
    Speaking of dreams in Zen, however, I did mention Keizan and Dogen. Any history wonks who wish to delve into this ...

    Many of the old Zen guys were big dreamers, waking or sleeping. Keizan was a renowned dreamer ... both waking and sleeping ... which he often interpreted as messages from the Buddha world. From page 114 here ...

    Visions of Power
    https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=rbrtd0-WTwsC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=keizan+dreams+waking&source=bl&ots=RIv61N_GFd&sig=ACfU3U1Kn3iHzkhpPf2QLSOQPA1o3hphYA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjviY7c0_7qAhXadd4KHZP5BxYQ6AEwFXoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=keizan%20dreams%20waking&f=false
    Bernard Faure's previous works are well known as guides to some of the more elusive aspects of the Chinese tradition of Chan Buddhism and its outgrowth, Japanese Zen. Continuing his efforts to look at Chan/Zen with a full array of postmodernist critical techniques, Faure now probes the imaginaire, or mental universe, of the Buddhist Soto Zen master Keizan Jokin (1268-1325). Although Faure's new book may be read at one level as an intellectual biography, Keizan is portrayed here less as an original thinker than as a representative of his culture and an example of the paradoxes of the Soto school. The Chan/Zen doctrine that he avowed was allegedly reasonable and demythologizing, but he lived in a psychological world that was just as imbued with the marvelous as was that of his contemporary Dante Alighieri. Drawing on his own dreams to demonstrate that he possessed the magical authority that he felt to reside also in icons and relics, Keizan strove to use these "visions of power" to buttress his influence as a patriarch. To reveal the historical, institutional, ritual, and visionary elements in Keizan's life and thought and to compare these to Soto doctrine, Faure draws on largely neglected texts, particularly the Record of Tokoku (a chronicle that begins with Keizan's account of the origins of the first of the monasteries that he established) and the kirigami, or secret initiation documents.


    Dogen was of the view that all of life is just "a dream within a dream" ... but was not quite so big into dreams themselves. This is from a scholar's article:




    Gassho, J

    SatTodayLAH / Sorry to run long ...
    I'll look up for this guy Keizan ��

    Gassho

    ST

    Bernal
    Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher

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      • Chikyou
        Member
        • May 2022
        • 701
        #32
        I am a lifelong experiencer of vivid dreams, hypnagogic hallucinations and sometimes nightmares.

        A few nights ago though, I had a nightmare (I don't recall at all what it was about). I was aware that I was dreaming, and instead of trying to wake myself up (which I usually do, without success, when I realize that I'm dreaming - that just adds to the terror) I thought to myself "I am having a nightmare. It's not a big deal." and just continued experiencing the nightmare without getting afraid or upset about it

        I blame my Zen practice for that one!

        Gassho,
        SatLah
        Kelly
        Chikyō 知鏡
        (KellyLM)

          Comment

          • Jundo
            Treeleaf Founder and Priest
            • Apr 2006
            • 41007
            #33
            Originally posted by KellyLM
            I am a lifelong experiencer of vivid dreams, hypnagogic hallucinations and sometimes nightmares.

            A few nights ago though, I had a nightmare (I don't recall at all what it was about). I was aware that I was dreaming, and instead of trying to wake myself up (which I usually do, without success, when I realize that I'm dreaming - that just adds to the terror) I thought to myself "I am having a nightmare. It's not a big deal." and just continued experiencing the nightmare without getting afraid or upset about it

            I blame my Zen practice for that one!

            Gassho,
            SatLah
            Kelly
            That sounds neat. Talk about "waking" in Samsara in just facing one's fears and going with it. Fascinating.

            Gassho, J

            stlah
            ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

              Comment

              • Kaitan
                Member
                • Mar 2023
                • 579
                #34
                Originally posted by KellyLM
                I am a lifelong experiencer of vivid dreams, hypnagogic hallucinations and sometimes nightmares.

                A few nights ago though, I had a nightmare (I don't recall at all what it was about). I was aware that I was dreaming, and instead of trying to wake myself up (which I usually do, without success, when I realize that I'm dreaming - that just adds to the terror) I thought to myself "I am having a nightmare. It's not a big deal." and just continued experiencing the nightmare without getting afraid or upset about it

                I blame my Zen practice for that one!

                Gassho,
                SatLah
                Kelly
                Thank you, Kelly, for sharing your experience. I've been reflecting lately how not running away/chasing somehow clears things out, aren't they the same action, relatively speaking?

                Gassho

                Sat Today

                Bernal
                Kaitan - 界探 - Realm searcher

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